High Octane Tryout.

[BikeJake]

Flipping heck... Even the standadish B12 really loves the stuff... Less. Vibe more power. Nice. 

[Gixer1460]

Shouldn't make any difference with that!

[Lachie04]

@ 11.3:1 and using high octane fuels (pump) only made my plugs blacken quicker went off it back to standard pump fuel (non European) fuel, never noticed a difference IMO

Edited November 19, 2022 by Lachie04

[coombehouse]

I've tried UK spec e5 super & E10 in a variety of bikes, modern & old. Haven't been able to detect any difference whatsoever in the way any of them run. My old turbo Saab however seems to run better on E10!!!

[rodneya]

3 hours ago, coombehouse said:

I've tried UK spec e5 super & E10 in a variety of bikes, modern & old. Haven't been able to detect any difference whatsoever in the way any of them run. My old turbo Saab however seems to run better on E10!!!

That stuff runs fine. The problem is what it does to your fuel system when it stands for more than a few weeks. Ive bought lawn mowers, snow blowers and 4 different bikes at super discount prices because they would not run from all the green goo in the fuel systems form the previous owners using 10% ethanol fuel.

[gsxwill]

E10 left for between 8 to12 weeks in an old Amal! 

[Gixer1460]

The rust alone shows the water attraction problem! I'll be using ESSO E5 which they declare as ethanol free.

[jonny1bump]

20 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

The rust alone shows the water attraction problem! I'll be using ESSO E5 which they declare as ethanol free.

Thats interesting did not know Esso was completely free of it.

[gray711]

My dyno guy mentioned this recently. It’s all I use in the bikes now - unless I get caught short (no fuel gauge) 

[coombehouse]

5 hours ago, jonny1bump said:

Thats interesting did not know Esso was completely free of it.

It is ethanol free but not in Devon & Cornwall & also Oop north. Something to do with logistics 

[TonyGee]

10 hours ago, coombehouse said:

It is ethanol free but not in Devon & Cornwall & also Oop north. Something to do with logistics 

Yep thats what i heard

[Devilman]

Makes absolutely zero difference to a stock motor.

What you more than likely felt was a combination of placebo and the cooler weather causing a denser air-charge.

[bluedog59]

Are we talking about any difference between different octane levels of E5 available or between E5 and E10 ?

[Gixer1460]

14 hours ago, bluedog59 said:

Are we talking about any difference between different octane levels of E5 available or between E5 and E10 ?

From a 'legal' standpoint E10 has to be 'lower' RON 95 octane, whilst E5 can have lower (or no) ethanol content but 'higher' RON 98/99 octane. I'm sure if you looked you could still find E5, 95 octane. But as most of the bikes we love were developed to run on really low octane fuels (90 ish), unless the timing curves are adjusted to suit a higher octane need / requirement (higher CR, turbo or nitrous use) there is little performance benefit from using higher octane fuels. I've seen lots of reports that engine runs smoother, less vibes, better fuel mileage - these are mostly subjective and not proven. In fact E10 gives a performance hit in that the fuel's energy content is less due to the increased % of alcohol, so you need to use more / richer mixture for the same power! Also a higher octane fuel used, burns slower so if the timing remains unaltered it will not achieve peak cylinder pressure till after the optimal point - less power is result.

Funny how the Government don't publish that fact when promoting how 'green' this new fuel is - but you have to use approx 5% more to travel same distance and so buy more which of course means more fuel duty and VAT for the coffers - Cynical moi? No way!

[Dezza]

I recently emptied a set of RS carbs of super-unleaded E5 (Esso). After approximately 6 weeks of standing the fuel inside had gone brown, and was worse in the accellerator pump circuits than in the float bowls. I use E5 to minimise the negative effects of ethanol on seals and O'rings but this shows it's probably a good idea to drain the fuel system if the bike is laid up, even for a few weeks. And if you have RSs, just draining the bowls isn't enough. Remove the bowls so the accelerator pump circuit can be drained too.

All the measurements of the same engines (unmodified) I have seen have shown bugger all performance difference between E5 and E10. These are all unmodified Japanese road bike engines though.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Dezza

[TLRS]

There will always be exceptions I guess but on a simple engine, can’t see the benefits?

The car is equipped with a knock sensor though. If I buy 98 octane and boost it a little to around 100ish it runs smoother. So probably adjusts timing to suit the slower burn without sacrifice of power.

For some circumstances it might be cheaper to use these boosters I think, over paying the difference at the fuel station. There are bottles that will treat, guestimate, 400 liters of fuel and add 2 to 3 points. A bottle is 20 quid.

[BikeJake]

Started using the expensive stuff because of the water problem and some rust in the tank. 

However I am 100 percent positive the engine is smoother. I've been riding bikes since I was, 14 built a fair few too. 

[johnr]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:10 PM, Gixer1460 said:

The rust alone shows the water attraction problem! I'll be using ESSO E5 which they declare as ethanol free.

except they dont. essos website proudly declares that their e5 petrol is ethanol free........ except for in cornwall....... and devon..... oh and north wales........ oh and northern england........ oh and also scotland...... but yeah, aside from that, its all ethanol free.....


https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

Edited December 17, 2022 by johnr

[coombehouse]

6 minutes ago, johnr said:

except they dont. essos website proudly declares that their e5 petrol is ethanol free........ except for in cornwall....... and devon..... oh and north wales........ oh and northern england........ oh and also scotland...... but yeah, aside from that, its all ethanol free.....


https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

Fortunately for me in Somerset, we get the good stuff & strangely enough, the local Esso garage is cheaper than all the local supermarkets too. 

[Gixer1460]

11 hours ago, johnr said:

except they dont. essos website proudly declares that their e5 petrol is ethanol free........ except for in cornwall....... and devon..... oh and north wales........ oh and northern england........ oh and also scotland...... but yeah, aside from that, its all ethanol free.....

I don't live in any of those places and unlikely that I'd bike to them either so don't care!

[DAZ]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:29 PM, gsxwill said:

E10 left for between 8 to12 weeks in an old Amal! 

 

On 11/23/2022 at 11:37 AM, Dezza said:

I recently emptied a set of RS carbs of super-unleaded E5 (Esso). After approximately 6 weeks of standing the fuel inside had gone brown, and was worse in the accellerator pump circuits than in the float bowls. I use E5 to minimise the negative effects of ethanol on seals and O'rings but this shows it's probably a good idea to drain the fuel system if the bike is laid up, even for a few weeks. And if you have RSs, just draining the bowls isn't enough. Remove the bowls so the accelerator pump circuit can be drained too.

All the measurements of the same engines (unmodified) I have seen have shown bugger all performance difference between E5 and E10. These are all unmodified Japanese road bike engines though.

Slight thread hijack anyone tried any of the fuel stabilizer type potions? I just bought some ,wait for it....Briggs and Stratton fuel fit on the recommendation of as Gardener mate supposed to stabilise fuel for Up to three years and prevent corrosion 

[TonyGee]

12 minutes ago, DAZ said:

 

Slight thread hijack anyone tried any of the fuel stabilizer type potions? I just bought some ,wait for it....Briggs and Stratton fuel fit on the recommendation of as Gardener mate supposed to stabilise fuel for Up to three years and prevent corrosion 

I used to work at a garden machinery shop and my boss used to sell it, the customers said it seams to work. but before I get any flack its NOT my opinion that it works. 

[Dezza]

Emptying the fuel system prior to a lay up definitely works, and gives me an excuse to faff about with my bikes. What's not to like?

[DAZ]

Well I'll find out in March just thought I would try some as this e10 is ok for the summer where your out most every week but not sure about over wintering seems to be a few more carb issue threads lately ,not just here but on other forums I frequent too

[coombehouse]

1 hour ago, DAZ said:

 

Slight thread hijack anyone tried any of the fuel stabilizer type potions? I just bought some ,wait for it....Briggs and Stratton fuel fit on the recommendation of as Gardener mate supposed to stabilise fuel for Up to three years and prevent corrosion 

I've used it & it seems to work. You have to use a lot though so it works out quite expensive. This stuff from toolstation works the same & it's imported by a garden tool supplier. You need less so it's more economical.