Oil cooled engine choices?

[imago]

Bit of a basic question for those who have gone before. In terms of 'bang for your buck' which would be the ideal starting point choice for a project with the  main requirements being good torque across the range, but also delivering decent power through the higher range. I'm going to put an oil cooled engine into a GS 1100 frame, and the natural choices seem to be GSXR 1100 or 1200 Bandit. It'll most likely be injected, and whatever it is will get a refresh internally.

Any sort of big bore kit will end up being a grand's worth of work, cams and head work would probably be the same. That said, it may happen that way if the parts came available without having to sell a kidney.  I don't fancy the turbo route to be honest, so that won't need to be considered.

Both Bandit and GSXR engines seem to be available for humble money. So ignoring for a moment any additional work, what's the recommended base engine to start with?

[Captain Chaos]

Powerscreen (GSX1100F)

plenty available, cheap, powerful

[imago]

17 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Powerscreen (GSX1100F)

plenty available, cheap, powerful

The GSX and GSXR 1100 engines seen to be about the same price, with oddly a few more 'bargains' for the GSXR. Bandit engines seem to be a bit dearer, but with the Bandit there's the option of buying a complete bike that's a bit of a snotter to get the running gear too.

 

I was wondering more about the benefits (if any) of one engine over the other as a starting point really.

[CockneyRick]

I asked this Q a while back & was reliably informed my GSX1100F lump is best option as Cap'n says  

[Duckndive]

30 minutes ago, CockneyRick said:

I asked this Q a while back & was reliably informed my GSX1100F lump is best option as Cap'n says  

Cheep yes but helical primary gears ...

So for not much more $ you can have straight cuts  on the Blandit or other GSXR 1052 or 1127 motors

[dupersunc]

If you want bolt in power fi d a good Gsxr1127.  Run 14 48 gearing

if you wan to do a full big bore build, a low miles 1200 bandit might be a better start as the liners are thicker.

stock 1200 bandit or 1127 power screen motors are a bit tame these days.

[imago]

Useful info gents. 

I don't know about the big bore option. Increasing displacement is all well and good, but it's a costly option for a moderate increase and even more costly if it's a first step in the search for more. My thinking at the moment is that the money may be better spent elsewhere on the build. The frame for example, I'm looking at monoshock conversion and I reckon I'll farm out the frame mods as it'll be quicker, easier and probably cheaper if you take into account buying a decent welder.

[Askamaskinservice]

Just do it, thats the only thing that counts.

Do it your way, there's no wrong or rite way.

[imago]

11 minutes ago, Askamaskinservice said:

Just do it, thats the only thing that counts.

Do it your way, there's no wrong or rite way.

It's all been done before, so whatever I (or anyone else) does will just be variations on other ideas. I'm just asking questions to avoid mistakes or going down a blind alley, and to speed things along a bit in the initial stages.  No point in using engine a. if I have to spend a grand bringing it up to engine b. which could have been bought for the same money initially.

[wraith]

@Markz9 has a b12 motor in bits in the for sale part  

[wraith]

To add a bit as well, I'm using a b12 motor in my gsx1157et project but I'm going to be putting a flowed DOT head on it, was going to put some gsxr cams in it as well but got some nice gsx1100f cams which will work better for all round power and some gsxr750 38mm carbs.

I'm told that a b12 with a good DOT head and gsxr cams will be good for apx 145-150 bhp at the rear wheel, which is good I'd say for what can be not a lot , in the grand sceem of things 

[dupersunc]

16 minutes ago, wraith said:

To add a bit as well, I'm using a b12 motor in my gsx1157et project but I'm going to be putting a flowed DOT head on it, was going to put some gsxr cams in it as well but got some nice gsx1100f cams which will work better for all round power and some gsxr750 38mm carbs.

I'm told that a b12 with a good DOT head and gsxr cams will be good for apx 145-150 bhp at the rear wheel, which is good I'd say for what can be not a lot , in the grand sceem of things 

A bandit 1200 with dot head and cams is good for 130bhp on a good day. No more.

 

[wraith]

2 hours ago, dupersunc said:

A bandit 1200 with dot head and cams is good for 130bhp on a good day. No more.

 

Only repeating what I was told on here when I started my project by someone (cannot remember who) who runs that speck of motor 

[Rene EFE]

Gsxr motors are usually ragged to fuck, and B12’s are either expensive, high milage or used through all weathers for commuting, with all the siezed bolts and other related misery that come with it. 

The Powerscreen was mostly used as a weekendtourer thing and therefor, even those that are still left in original condition, are usually quite well looked after and more often than not, just been sitting for a good few years because Bob “didn’t really want to rid of it after he’s bought his GS1200”

I’m quite the Powerscreen fan..

[Oilyspanner]

The GSX1100F motors are good units, the cams may not be quite the same as the GSXR ones, but they give a good combination of bottom end and top end. The helical primary gear isn't an issue for a non turbo bike. Besides the engine is ripe for transplanting !

[Dezza]

12 hours ago, imago said:

Bit of a basic question for those who have gone before. In terms of 'bang for your buck' which would be the ideal starting point choice for a project with the  main requirements being good torque across the range, but also delivering decent power through the higher range. I'm going to put an oil cooled engine into a GS 1100 frame, and the natural choices seem to be GSXR 1100 or 1200 Bandit. It'll most likely be injected, and whatever it is will get a refresh internally.

Any sort of big bore kit will end up being a grand's worth of work, cams and head work would probably be the same. That said, it may happen that way if the parts came available without having to sell a kidney.  I don't fancy the turbo route to be honest, so that won't need to be considered.

Both Bandit and GSXR engines seem to be available for humble money. So ignoring for a moment any additional work, what's the recommended base engine to start with?

Are you in the US? I ask as you state 'GS1100', which here means GSX1100. If so, the availability of big oil cooled motors and their likely condition is probably different to the UK (especially) and other European countries. If you are in Europe, ignore the above

[Captain Chaos]

profile says "Birmingham, UK"

I'd still go Powerscreen, good compromise between low down grunt and top end rush. Especially with 38mm carbs from a Slingy 750. And as @Rene EFEsays they are generally in better condition than GSX-R engines.

 

[imago]

11 hours ago, Dezza said:

Are you in the US? I ask as you state 'GS1100', which here means GSX1100. If so, the availability of big oil cooled motors and their likely condition is probably different to the UK (especially) and other European countries. If you are in Europe, ignore the above

I'm in the UK, but I bought a GS1100 (import from USA) mainly for the engine. As the rest of the bike is complete, has a V5 and is fugly as it makes sense to do something with it. 

4 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

profile says "Birmingham, UK"

I'd still go Powerscreen, good compromise between low down grunt and top end rush. Especially with 38mm carbs from a Slingy 750. And as @Rene EFEsays they are generally in better condition than GSX-R engines.

 

I've had three powerscreens over the years, always found them great for commuting and general use, and if I hadn't gone self-employed I'd probably still have one TBH. I reckon you'd struggle to find more bike for your money. I'd have no problem with using the engine out of one, but just wanted to check I wasn't missing a trick somewhere along the line.

That said, at the moment I'm leaning towards a Bandit lump. Purely because I can get a whole bike for less than a grand which would give me not only the power plant, but all the running gear too. With the internals upgraded on the forks, and a decent shock at the back it'd be well sorted handling wise. The wheels will allow some decent tyres, I can harvest whatever I want from the loom etc.

As the frame will need altering for what I have in mind anyway, sorting it for a mono-shock rear end won't be masses of extra work. I'm almost certainly going to get the frame work done by someone else if I can find someone able to do it who's already familiar with the bracing and changes required.

All of the above will free me up to work on the looks of the bike (bodywork, stance etc) and the electrical and fuelling systems.

[imago]

3 hours ago, imago said:

That said, at the moment I'm leaning towards a Bandit lump. Purely because I can get a whole bike for less than a grand which would give me not only the power plant, but all the running gear too. With the internals upgraded on the forks, and a decent shock at the back it'd be well sorted handling wise. The wheels will allow some decent tyres, I can harvest whatever I want from the loom etc.

Actually, scratch that idea. Basically what I'd end up with that plan would be a funny looking Bandit. 

Thanks for the engine info/opinions gents, I need to have a think about what I want from this, or if I want to do it at all. 

[CockneyRick]

Blandit 12 for a grand, point me in that direction  

[Rene EFE]

Mine’s 1500€, which is roughly the same  

[CockneyRick]

£1320 you been smoking too much of your stash  

[imago]

32 minutes ago, CockneyRick said:

Blandit 12 for a grand, point me in that direction  

Well, there;s this online auction site ...... 

 

There're three on there now under a grand, one buy it now, and there's another three just over. So if you're going down that route, it's a very cheap way to buy engine, wheels, forks, swing arm, shock and linkage etc etc. There's even a very tidy unit for £2k with a braced arm, decent tyres, tidy engine with polished bits and  thirty odd thousand on the clock. When you add up the components that's a good buy too. 

As above though,  if I went that route I'd just end up with an odd looking Bandit. 

[imago]

32 minutes ago, Rene EFE said:

Mine’s 1500€, which is roughly the same  

Which is my point, as that's a good saving on the components bought individually and you still have bits left over to sell.

[clivegto]

I like the 1100f motor in standard trim + pipe & filters with a good exhaust. After all it was the most powfull oil cooled engine. It's a bit of a no brainer realy with a lighter frame set up, if you don't want to spend money on the lump.