Cam timing check.... something is not quite right

[Dukeman]

Took head off to replace head gasket..........Camshaft timing check.... I want to double check the cam timing. GSXR1100 - book says 22 pins. Yep 22pins double checked, triple checked. The exhaust cam looks slightly advanced. The 2 arrow is good and the slot is lined up as it should. But the exhaust arrow 3 looks slight pointing up. The pin count is 22pins, if I rotate the exhaust cam anti clockwise 1 tooth the arrows might line up better but the pin count would be 21 pins, not 22 as the book says. To add the timing pick up is a Yoshi thing with +5deg. Would this have anything to do with the timing? Gut feel tells me this is OK, unless I go back to 21 pins... and ideas?

 

 

[bunk]

At that point i would look at the notches in the end of the cams. Im no pro, only done the job once. Well twice actually cause i forgot to put a chain guide in, the guide made a huge difference in everything being spot on.

[wraith]

You quite often find the arrows are not always bang on as the book says.

 

[Duckndive]

i always find TDC with a dial gauge and degree wheel 

[bunk]

1 hour ago, wraith said:

You quite often find the arrows are not always bang on as the book says.

 

Then something else is wrong. My 15k mile 86 1100 engine was spot on after i installed the guide i forgot. Like exactly mint perfect. 

Edit: I did find TDC using a indicator while the head was off. 

Edited November 30 by bunk

[Upshotknothole]

Totally normal for the arrows to not perfectly match the manual, as long as the chain is correct, you're good. You can always turn the engine over by hand to verify.

[spiderpig]

It's timing mark 1 on the exhaust that has to line up with top of head, others don't matter

[Toecutter]

Yep. 1 in line with head on ex and pin count back from no.2 to no.3 on intake. Looks good to me. Have you ran the engine with the ignition advancer yet or have you just installed it? 

On two slabby engines of mine with them fitted kept spinning the starter clutch loose and grenaded one starter clutch. I don't use them anymore and no issues since.

[Crass]

If you've got camchain wear it will be longer than new. The tensioner will maintain correct tension, however. Provided you have the exhaust mark lined up and the correct number of pins counted then any slight discrepancy in positioning is probably down to wear. Doesn't mean the chain is worn out but obviously as it wears the mark will slowly drift out of the ideal position. Provided the chain isn't worn beyond serviceable limit everything is fine.

[TonyGee]

its not often you come across timing marks that line up 100% perfect !!!!!   

[McLean Racing]

As i said on facebook. The cam chain idler is assembled wrong. The plates at the bottom of the tensioner need to be on top under the head of the bolts. Your inlet cam will be retarded. When you assemble the idler correctly. Itll push the chain down and bring the marks into alignment. Make sure ur remove the tensioner before u do this

[Gixer1460]

15 hours ago, McLean Racing said:

As i said on facebook. The cam chain idler is assembled wrong. The plates at the bottom of the tensioner need to be on top under the head of the bolts. 

Somewhat agree - the parts fiche and any photo I can find show nothing under the rubber isolators - nor on top! As a ferrule is included within the isolators any securing bolt can only clamp up so far so no further crush can occur, so I think there are extra redundant parts there!

[Dukeman]

I purchased the bike with the timing advance on it. Has always run well so I have no reason to change it.

Interesting comments, I don't have the standard one to put back.

OH and cam chain tensioner is not installed yet.... just saying.

I pull the cam chain idler apart and it looks to go back together one way only.... all the wear marks line up this way.

The pictures in the manual show it this way.

The rubber plates have a steal outer which is on top where the bolts sit. The idler is sandwiched between the rubber plates held in place with the small spacers.

I tried all the other ways, and the radius of the plates interfered with the idler bracket, it could only go this way.

Plan is to pull it all apart tomorrow and line up the exhaust sprocket as suggested, count pins and see how it looks. Gut feel tells me its ok, I can turn the engine over and there is no interference.

[clivegto]

Curiosity got the better of me so I went took the cam cover of my spare motor and @McLean Racingis indeed correct as I thought. 

[Dukeman]

[Dukeman]

Thanks for doing that, it is interesting.

Where are these plates?

[Upshotknothole]

I think they sit on the bottom, I don't feel like opening a head to double check. Look at the parts diagrams.

[Dukeman]

Yes they are.. so it is the same as mine.

Thats good.

[Gixer1460]

57 minutes ago, Upshotknothole said:

I think they sit on the bottom, I don't feel like opening a head to double check. Look at the parts diagrams.

They do not feature on parts diagrams ! ! ! Hense my earlier reply.

    

[Dukeman]

[clivegto]

Common sense says to me they should be on the top. 

[TonyGee]

I think at the end of the day I would adjust the height of the idler wheel so it brings the inlet cam timing close to where it should be, as long as it doesn't touch the cam cover. 

[clivegto]

1 minute ago, TonyGee said:

I think at the end of the day I would adjust the height of the idler wheel so it brings the inlet cam timing close to where it should be, as long as it doesn't touch the cam cover. 

This also makes perfect sense to me. 

[spiderpig]

But the inlet cam shouldn't move when you put the idler in 

[wobblegob]

5 hours ago, spiderpig said:

But the inlet cam shouldn't move when you put the idler in 

The exhaust cam shouldn't move but the inlet cam will when the idler is fitted