Turbo or Supercharger ?

[slabbyfaceddean]

Hi everyone 

 I want to run a 1216 bandit engine forced induction anyone supercharged their Motor ?  

[dupersunc]

Always struck me that a supercharger has totally the wrong power delivery for a bike unless you have a lot of electronic intervention.

[Gixer1460]

3 hours ago, dupersunc said:

Always struck me that a supercharger has totally the wrong power delivery for a bike unless you have a lot of electronic intervention.

Explain please? Turbo (heat driven supercharger) positive displacement supercharging or centrifugal supercharging outputs can be tailored to most power delivery requirements?  

[dupersunc]

Just now, Gixer1460 said:

Explain please? Turbo (heat driven supercharger) positive displacement supercharging or centrifugal supercharging outputs can be tailored to most power delivery requirements?  

Mechanically driven supercharger. Big gobs of torque at low revs where it's difficult to modulate and wrecks tyres.

[Paulm]

56 minutes ago, dupersunc said:

Mechanically driven supercharger. Big gobs of torque at low revs where it's difficult to modulate and wrecks tyres.

Sounds like fun to me I’m of the philosophy that when the tyres fucked you replace it,same as when your fuel tank is empty you fill it.

[bluedog59]

You've already done the turbo option, why do the same thing again ?

[Gixer1460]

11 hours ago, dupersunc said:

Mechanically driven supercharger. Big gobs of torque at low revs where it's difficult to modulate and wrecks tyres.

Then you would use a Centrifugal ProCharger type unit - they give linear boost with revs! 

[dupersunc]

9 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

Then you would use a Centrifugal ProCharger type unit - they give linear boost with revs! 

Do you mean like on the Kawa H2?

 

[Gixer1460]

Don't know much about the H2 but just reading the Wiki about it - bit more sophisticated than a Procharger - but yes!

[Duckndive]

I luv proper supercharger,s but the down side is they use power to drive them

so gains have to replace that loss plus a worth while increase .

[slabbyfaceddean]

I want to eliminate lag or reduce as much lag as i can, I dont want to run a extended swingarm as handling is an equal with power on my list. I dont want to wind open the throttle on a corner exit and wait wait, then go sideways with loss of traction.  

[Duckndive]

Fuel Injected Blow Thru Turbo then

[Blower1]

12 hours ago, dupersunc said:

Mechanically driven supercharger. Big gobs of torque at low revs where it's difficult to modulate and wrecks tyres.

It´s not so difficult  to control big low end torque if you have done intake system right.

I have Eaton M62 in my 1327cc EFE and it´s fun to ride from low revs to high revs (222 rwhp and 202 rwNm).

 

[slabbyfaceddean]

Might look at Borgwarner KP39 of the Fiesta 180/200 ST ,  Its small and capable of 230 bhp with little or no lag  

[slabbyfaceddean]

9 hours ago, Blower1 said:

It´s not so difficult  to control big low end torque if you have done intake system right.

I have Eaton M62 in my 1327cc EFE and it´s fun to ride from low revs to high revs (222 rwhp and 202 rwNm).

 

M62 of a merc, have you got or willing to divulge anymore info, Build thread might be nice :-) 

[vizman]

1 hour ago, slabbyfaceddean said:

M62 of a merc, have you got or willing to divulge anymore info, Build thread might be nice :-) 

Take some time looking through the projects section.....saves the people who’ve already taken the time to post there shenanigans from typing it all again.....

.....although some do like to.

[slabbyfaceddean]

9 hours ago, vizman said:

Take some time looking through the projects section.....saves the people who’ve already taken the time to post there shenanigans from typing it all again.....

.....although some do like to.

Cannot look yet, Still got to up my posts without doing it falsely.. only another 26  to go, should be done by next summer lol

[vizman]

2 minutes ago, slabbyfaceddean said:

Cannot look yet, Still got to up my posts without doing it falsely.. only another 26  to go, should be done by next summer lol

Confused

[manden]

On 5/27/2019 at 11:29 AM, Blower1 said:

It´s not so difficult  to control big low end torque if you have done intake system right.

I have Eaton M62 in my 1327cc EFE and it´s fun to ride from low revs to high revs (222 rwhp and 202 rwNm).

 

After I saw yours I've been thinking alot of doing it to mine. I think there's a bit larger Mercedes charger as well. I'll try and find it

[Gixer1460]

There are larger Eaton units - M90's that were fitted to big Jag's. I had a couple and had plans for fitting one to a 1186 engine but the drive train would potentially sap so much power I wouldn't get much more power than the T2 turbo fitted at the time so project got shelved! Also getting the drive out of an oil cooled engine isn't easy if you don't want leaks - air cooled sooooo much easier!

Going back to a point above about 'big gobs of torque at low rpm's' - yes there is more torque available at low rpm but its not excessive. It should be proportional to throttle opening and more akin to riding a bike with a big bore / capacity hike that just keeps building capacity! A positive displacement supercharger can be undergeared to lower the torque curve so building boost later and less overall - but that's not fun. The real problem IMO is the difficulty of incorporating an intercooler, same as with a draw through turbo - they both need them but don't have the real estate!

[MeanBean49]

A properly sized decent ball bearing turbo is much simpler and will give more plenty of torque low down as well as top end power. I had a good long chat with one of the kawasaki tech guys about the H2 and H2R, the big problem they have is keeping the heat down and the amount of power it takes to make boost at low revs on a small capacity engine means its not actually that torquey low down anyway.

The H2R supposedly makes 135 ft lbs in the middle of the rev range and 300 ish bhp peak

Mine makes 200 ft lbs at 6k and as much as the H2R at just 4k with 280bhp peak

Puts the low down torque thing superchargers are meant to be great for into perspective.

Mine is really nice to ride, nice and linear, no big steps or sudden boost. Dead easy to ride it fast on trackdays.

[prichmon]

Turbo is the most efficient. Period. Also tends to be easier to install compared with sc.  Hardest part is the plumbing. 

H2 afaik uses a rotrex supercharger. A turbo cold side with mods to be gear driven from the primary. The rotrex is as close to a turbo as you can get and still be supercharged.

Roots Is the least efficient except new 4 lobe 160* twist units. You can snag cheap roots sc from the junkyard. Eaton m62s were used on gm 3.8l by, ford 3.8l. Toyota previa had small sc with a clutch like mad max or an ac compressor. Jackson racing used an eaton m45 for their kitsch on the civic and integras.

Go turbo.

 

 

[Arm]

Horses for courses. Both great. I've used a rotrex sc for years and it's very easy to setup. At low rpm and little boost it acts like a nat  asp. Around 4500 rpm engine wakes up and power curve climbs in a linear fashion more quickly than may asp. Then stays linear to your max revs. Doesn't usually tail off. 

Not getting into turbo or sc argument. Both great and both have a place.  Have done both and sc very easy to get running well.

[Screwriverracing]

Can't make your mind up, so why not use BOTH.

Cheers SRR

[Ragerover]

I run a rotrex on my Busa no issues 

I’ve also seen a kit on a Gsxr that ran a HSR 42 carb on with no issues 

seeing the belt open looks cool too