Engine Spec, Boost and BHP

[Danm54]

Interested to know what others are running in terms of engine work and components compared to what boost you're running with and draw/blow through.

 

Power output is maybe irrelevant as the engines will differ but maybe throw it in if you know it.

Intake temps would be good if you know them too.

 

Reason I'm asking is I finally have some figures back from my build and its on the lower side of what I was expecting, its not bad at all but I think there's room for improvement.

 

So I'm 1100w 

MTC turbo pistons, dished

Corillo rods

Balanced crank, rods and pistons.

Standard sized valves (kpmi)

8.1:1 comp ratio

~170bhp 100ft/lbs torque @ 12psi

Intake temps around 65 degrees

Draw through fuel injected.

 

 

[Leblowski]

I had around 10 psi on my draw through oilcooled kwak made 227 bhp at the wheel and 197 nm off torgue

1216 oilcooled busapistons 9:1 cr, T 25 garret.

nothing done to engine besides the busapistons and adjusted camtiming skimmed head and cilinderbank 1 mm squish

no retard on ign timing also on euro 98 petrol

i was surprised about the good numbers to be honest.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Leblowski

[Fula28]

I had Td04-16t , bandit block,1052 bottom end, stock comp.10.1 stock Pistons cams head.no retard 2-1/2"exhaust system. 7psi boost, 34m carbs.209bhp 111lbs torque! 

[Danm54]

The other 1100w makes 146bhp and thats with 1mm (or 1.5mm?) oversized 12:1 comp pistons, akra and air filter.

That along with the info above makes me think there's something holding it back.

 

Maybe high intake temps, cam timing or possibly too big a turbo?

I'll get it back and on the road first and see how it goes.

[spondonturbo]

I would have thought you should be getting more than 170 at 12 psi on an1100 W motor, so something does not sound right to me, but I am no expert. Surely 200 - 250 must be a reasonable expectation on a GSXR motor?

[Danm54]

Thats the ball park I was expecting to be honest. I think 200 should be achievable.

 

I'll have to go over a few things once its back.

[Arttu]

My GSX1100 with EFE engine:

-1230cc Wiseco pistons, dished tops with ceramic coating, 9.1:1 compression

-1mm oversize exhaust valves, mildly ported head

-IHI VF34 turbo

-blow through EFI

-water injection charge cooling

Makes about 300hp at wheel with 1.1 bar boost. Intake temps around 75°C with water injection and 90°C without it.

 

Another oil cooled GSX-R1100 that I tuned a year ago:

-some forged pistons, maybe around 1170cc, compression unknown.

-Mitsu TD04-16 turbo

-blow through EFI

-air-to-air intercooler

Produced about 190hp with 0.5 bar boost. Intake temps around 50°C.

 

So yes, I agree that yours should be able to do better. Intake temps sound pretty normal for that boost to me so I don't think that's the problem.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Arttu

[Danm54]

@Arttu they're aome good numbers, I should definitely be getting more then.

 

Read back on the build threads and checked a few details.

I have a 1.3mm squish band and a static comp ratio of 9.17:1 not the 8.1:1 I said in the OP

 

Cam timings are

Intake LC 108 degrees ATDC

Exhaust LC 109.5 degrees BTDC

Overlap 16 degrees

 

Assuming I've measured them correct are they about right?

I'll probably get a mate to check them over just to be sure anyway.

[Leblowski]

My other bike 

blow through gt 2560r bb 1216 gsxf engine 7.8:1 cr fuel injected

237 bhp 240 nm off  torgue at 15 psi

Cams on intake 108  echaust 110 

i reckon there must be something thats holding your ponies back indeed compared to all the others here

[Gixer1460]

I have no specific evidence of this but i'd say lobe centres of 108 - 110 degrees is probably optimal for N/A - figures nearer 103/104 degrees are more suited to turbo's with minimal overlap. 

My draw through 1186 made 210hp @ 10psi and the 1460 was 370hp @ probably 20 odd psi ! I've never checked intake temps but would expect them to be well north of 100 deg C even with the intercooler!

Edited April 17, 2016 by Gixer1460

[Leblowski]

Egg and me did some testing on the dyno few years ago with camtiming we came to the conclusion that 108 110 was best too keep torgue going without dropping fast

we tried around 100 103 etc but that gave bad power results for us

This is the sheet of my kwak on about 10 psi with 108 110

It worked for me, a well known turboguru here in Holland said 106 106 is probably best.

I want to try that in the future for my bakker turbo 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Leblowski

[spondonturbo]

Compression ratio is a little bit higher than average, but I don't think that would explain the lower than expected power. You mentioned it is fuel injection. I have not experienced a draw through with fule injection. Is it set up right? Maybe the fuelling is the restricting factor

[Danm54]

@Leblowski I think my cam figures were based on your experience.

 

It should have plenty of fuel through 4 650cc injectors.

 

John who's mapping it comes highly recommended and has loads of experience so I can only assume he's damn good at what he does.

 

Seems a bit cheeky to ask someone else to look it over...

[slingy1157]

On 4/6/2016 at 7:24 AM, Danm54 said:

@Leblowski I think my cam figures were based on your experience.

 

It should have plenty of fuel through 4 650cc injectors.

 

John who's mapping it comes highly recommended and has loads of experience so I can only assume he's damn good at what he does.

 

Seems a bit cheeky to ask someone else to look it over...

Mmmm..... But isnt he also the guy that plumbed your crankcase breather into the waste gate actuator? Is he experienced in tuning ( cars or bikes) or is he experienced in tuning turbo bikes?

As thats two completely different questions in my book. 

What about Ignition timing? 12psi on 9-1 Cr with efi to manage fueling i would say stock timing would be fine, and with the drop in CR, bring it all in abit earlier to help pickup.

Then maybe just take 2-3 deg out above 10psi but i wouldnt worry too much 

I take it the new ECU they put in is doing the spark still as well?

Do you know for a fact its making 12psi or are you just going off what the wastegate actuator spring is suppose to work at? Like there could be a boost leak, though i'd of thought the tuner would see this from logging the MAP and generating the tables.

Like these engines are suppose to be about 137bhp at the wheel NA.(according to the interwebs) So if we take it that with the drop in CR and restrictions in the inlet and exhaust from the turbo system that the new NA power would probably be down to about 120bhp at the wheel. So lets do the math on that at 12psi.

(12/14.7) x 100 = 81.6 % of 1 bar is 12psi

(120 x 81.6) + 120 = 217.92 bhp @ 12psi theoretically

So this is about what should be achievable all things working the way they should be.

Anyway, keep at it, at least its mapped and is giving you a baseline to work off.

[meisseli]

Hi! I have a 1216 bandit whit busa pistons. Cr is 7.8:1 china TD05 16G. Power 284hp 266nm at 1,3bar and it's a blow through.

cam timing is original.

Edited April 13, 2016 by meisseli

[FJD]

impressive numbers meisseli - any pics available ?

[Blower1]

GSX 1100 EFE 1986

- 1327cc JE pistons 11:1 comp

- mildly ported head, 1mm bigger exhaust and 1,5mm bigger intake valves

- Original cams, intake 109, exhaust 110

. Welded crank

- Eaton M45 supercharger from Mini Cooper S

- Blow through efi

- Boost 0,5 bar

- Fuel E85

- 209,7 hp and 181 Nm (rear wheel power).

 

 

[Duckndive]

GSX 1100 EE

Welded Crank & Straight Cut Gears .1166cc Forged Pistons.Stock Head & Cams....8.5:1 CR

Hybrid Mr Turbo Headers and Up-Pipe...Garrett T3 on Home Made Plenum

Gravity Feed HSR 42 Carb...240 Main Jet....160 BHP at 5 PSI......on super pi55

Foot Shifted off a crap 1.8 60ft to a 9:8 1/4

  

Edited April 16, 2016 by Duckndive
added C/R

[meisseli]

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 8:01 PM, meisseli said:

Hi! I have a 1216 bandit whit busa pistons. Cr is 7.8:1 china TD05 16G. Power 284hp 266nm at 1,3bar and it's a blow through.

cam timing is original.

Some pics..

[Reinhoud]

GS1000, 1245cc big bore - 8:1 - 11 or 12 psi, revs limited at 9000rpm.

But the turbocharger was an El cheapo what I most likely ruined before I had it on the road.

 

I had 135Nm and 150 hp, much lower as expected, I put mine on the dyno to see it the carbies were adjusted ok.

Carbies needed quite some bigger main jets, after the dyno I also played with the ignition timing........ And then.... then the power came!!!

Insane, and then the con rod snapped at 180km/h on the local industrial area...... I felt like crying....

 

I had a lot off bad luck with my project, bike smoked a lot, first I had another head on it, a gas flowed one with twin spark, beautifully done, piece off art!

With that head the bike went off it's tits, from 90 to 240km/h in 300 meters in top gear, fish tailing at 110km/h in 3rd when I opened it up to quick, from 80 to 160km/h in about 3 seconds.. With the stock head the bike wasn't as fast.

But the bearing caps didn't match the head, I had to make it work. Therefor I put the stock head back on. (After I made it a twin spark.)

 

 

[slingy1157]

1 hour ago, Reinhoud said:

GS1000, 1245cc big bore - 8:1 - 11 or 12 psi, revs limited at 9000rpm.

But the turbocharger was an El cheapo what I most likely ruined before I had it on the road.

 

I had 135Nm and 150 hp, much lower as expected, I put mine on the dyno to see it the carbies were adjusted ok.

Carbies needed quite some bigger main jets, after the dyno I also played with the ignition timing........ And then.... then the power came!!!

Insane, and then the con rod snapped at 180km/h on the local industrial area...... I felt like crying....

 

I had a lot off bad luck with my project, bike smoked a lot, first I had another head on it, a gas flowed one with twin spark, beautifully done, piece off art!

With that head the bike went off it's tits, from 90 to 240km/h in 300 meters in top gear, fish tailing at 110km/h in 3rd when I opened it up to quick, from 80 to 160km/h in about 3 seconds.. With the stock head the bike wasn't as fast.

But the bearing caps didn't match the head, I had to make it work. Therefor I put the stock head back on. (After I made it a twin spark.)

 

 

Awesome looking bike . Any more pictures Heinhoud? And what turbo did you use and what did you do to the oil system to raise the pressure enough to work with the turbo?

[Reinhoud]

Thanks.

I built 2 pumps on the engine, a scavenge pump on the left side off the engine, I extended the shaft off the oil pump to the other side off the engine, and I made a new bottom plate, and on that I made the turbo feed pump, driven through a sprocket from the extended oil pump shaft.

Turbo charger was for a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III, but that was a little bit too big, full torque at 5000rpm.

 

I'm busy with a new set off crank cases, I'm busy building the scavenge pump back on, but these crankcases are slightly different as the previous set, scavenge pump doesn't fit as good as the previous set.

As soon as the scavenge pump is on I'll open a topic about it.

 

[slingy1157]

I tried to turbo my gs850 trike 18 yrs ago and had the idea to build a belly pan which held the oil for the turbo, thus giving a lower oil level and making it possible to still get gravity drain even with a lowish mounted turbo. Then only a pressure pump to lubricate the turbo driven off the engine ( or even electric as they are pretty good now and would facilitate pre and post oiling) with a dedicated cooler and filter would be required. But in the end i got a set of gsx1100 turbobike oil pump gears (even higher ratio than the traditional gsx750 oil pump gear swap) and found they fitted the 850 ok so i just went that route which seemed to work ok. And was able to keep the turbo high enough for gravity drain.

Will be very intetested to see your pump solutions.

[Reinhoud]

Ok, I also made a wider oil pump in the engine, one from a GSX750 with plain bearings, when the engine was cold the oil pressure was high enough, as soon as the oil came at operating temperature the pressure dropped till only a little bit above the pressure with the stock pump.

On another forum there was a guy who turbo'd a GS850, he used an electric pump. I was thinking off that too, but I wasn't sure if my alternator could feed a fuel and an oil pump together. I did upgrade the alternator.

[t3rse]

On 4/17/2016 at 0:53 PM, meisseli said:

Some pics..

 

I'd love to get some info on this thing.