Carbomoto Bandit

[george 1100]

No hate here, the build is cool but I just don't believe the 143kg.  If I  went to carbon fairings, I might lose 1kg, lose the starter motor 1.5kg, carbon tank 1kg. That's 3.5 kg. My exhaust probably weighs 3.5k kg less than his. A slabby frame only weighs 12.8kg vs his 9kg frame. 

The maths just doesn't work. I'm happy for anyone to point at my bike where I can lose 22kg.

[TraxX]

6 minutes ago, george 1100 said:

No hate here, the build is cool but I just don't believe the 143kg.  If I  went to carbon fairings, I might lose 1kg, lose the starter motor 1.5kg, carbon tank 1kg. That's 3.5 kg. My exhaust probably weighs 3.5k kg less than his. A slabby frame only weighs 12.8kg vs his 9kg frame. 

The maths just doesn't work. I'm happy for anyone to point at my bike where I can lose 22kg.

the 165kg of your bike are with how much fuel?

[george 1100]

24 minutes ago, TraxX said:

the 165kg of your bike are with how much fuel?

Last time I weighed it dry it was 165kg, no fuel or oil. Standard dry weight for an 1100 slabby is 197kg. Dry weight for a bandit is 220kg.

[Joseph]

Dry weight for this carbon project is theoretically 135 kg

Edited Thursday at 10:29 AM by Joseph

[TLRS]

Maybe the weight is exagerated a little.. still a cool build though.. not a lot left on the table for weight saving it seems.

[Dezza]

For comparison, an old RG500 as supplied to privateer teams in the late 70s/early 80s was about 120kg dry. I just can't see how any bike with a b12 engine is going to get anywhere near 140kg as the engine alone must weigh 80kg+. What's the weight limit for a current moto gp bike? I'm guessing about 145kg and their engines are going to be a whole lot lighter than that from a B12.

[coombehouse]

Thanks for posting this, it's interesting. There no hate from me either on any of this stuff however there's definitely some questions.

Regarding your statement: 

Carbomoto is well know (at least in germany) for their self supporting carbon seat units for some decades. So why wouldnt a company that makes things like this https://carbomotocom.com/shop/carbonteile/fullsix-carbon/ducati-fullsix/panigale-v4-v4s-v4-speciale/selbsttragendes-heck/ be able to produce a ugly but working bandit carbon frame.

The item in question is made in Slovenia by someone else.

In addition, to successfully make a functional frame from carbon, it wouldn't look like a bandit frame as the properties of carbon are not the same as steel. Even carbon bicycles which are common these days are a different design to steel. 

[Joseph]

38 minutes ago, coombehouse said:

In addition, to successfully make a functional frame from carbon, it wouldn't look like a bandit frame as the properties of carbon are not the same as steel. Even carbon bicycles which are common these days are a different design to steel. 

And those frames don't look like they've been hastily covered in exhaust wrap and clearcoated like this bike.

[TLRS]

This bandit might have been conceived when carbon was still very much a novelty?

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Dezza said:

For comparison, an old RG500 as supplied to privateer teams in the late 70s/early 80s was about 120kg dry. I just can't see how any bike with a b12 engine is going to get anywhere near 140kg as the engine alone must weigh 80kg+. What's the weight limit for a current moto gp bike? I'm guessing about 145kg and their engines are going to be a whole lot lighter than that from a B12.

12 motor is about 70kg without carbs, cooler and fluids

[dupersunc]

1 hour ago, TLRS said:

This bandit might have been conceived when carbon was still very much a novelty?

1982?

[dupersunc]

3 hours ago, Dezza said:

For comparison, an old RG500 as supplied to privateer teams in the late 70s/early 80s was about 120kg dry. I just can't see how any bike with a b12 engine is going to get anywhere near 140kg as the engine alone must weigh 80kg+. What's the weight limit for a current moto gp bike? I'm guessing about 145kg and their engines are going to be a whole lot lighter than that from a B12.

154Kg for a current motogp bike! It's how they get away with all the add ons, aero, mass dampers. ride height devices etc.

[TLRS]

Just now, dupersunc said:

1982?

Probably not in absolute sense but in "I got a bike shop and want to make a carbon frame" sense?

Beyond me why this effort seems to be frowned upon..

[Captain Chaos]

I don't understand why you would go through all that trouble and money to make something very special, that still looks like a Blandit

[wraith]

Always a interesting one weight loss on a bike. 

Take my Katana, oil cooled 1100 engine brace frame gsxr1100 rwu front end (b12 wheel) gsxr750wr (b12 wheel) and some Titanium bits comes in at 205kg wet. Got the weight by bathroom scales front wheel first then the rear wheel, added both numbers together and got the 205kg which is light for a old steel framed bike. The gsx1157et came in about 5-10kg heavier 

Losing another 60kg even if I put carbon fibre wheels and so on think it would be hard to get a loss of 60kg.

But a good read anyway 

[Upshotknothole]

6 hours ago, coombehouse said:

In addition, to successfully make a functional frame from carbon, it wouldn't look like a bandit frame as the properties of carbon are not the same as steel. Even carbon bicycles which are common these days are a different design to steel. 

Most of the bicycles I've bought in the last 12+ years have been carbon, and you're right. The tube shapes and the joints are different from aluminum or steel frames, just different strength and weakness properties. This blandit frame reminds me more of the early carbon bikes that were made up of carbon tubes with aluminium plugs for the joints glued in. That was common at the time, but has long since been discontinued as the glue would fail.

Not hating on this build, just questioning the weight like everyone else. Because if you wanted strength and lightness, you wouldn't make a carbon copy of a Bandit frame.

[Ted M]

143 kg is a bit pie in the sky for what is essentially a stripped down bandit. I don’t even think it’s a carbon frame. Having looked at the pictures I would say the frame is carbon wrap. Some of the text doesn’t add up either it’s a standard bandit swingarm not a gsxr 750. 

[Joseph]

If they'd managed 135 kg dry weight on a bandit, the photo of the reading on the scales would be the opening one of the article.