Fellow Watercoolers! I'm on the hunt for a completely unobtainium part!!

[djayedot]

Foreword: I know this is technically a "Wanted" post, but I didn't see a classifieds section on here, so I figured this place was the best bet. Please delete if not allowed.

What's up guys, new here. I usually frequent the say what now!?.com forums but the nice folks over there have sent me this way in hopes that I have better luck... I'm on the hunt for a Superbike Mike (aka SBM, SBM Engineering) 1298cc billet cylinder block for a water-cooled Suzuki GSXR1100. I have a ridiculous amount of time and money into this bike, and I love it very, very dearly, and this really is the FINAL special part that I need to make it everything I've ever dreamed of (not including any commonly available bits for this upcoming motor build).

I know, there's probably about 0.5 of these things in existence today, but I am determined, and literally willing to sell my left nut for this thing. Pistons I'm not worried about. Matter of fact, I would even entertain a damaged cylinder as I have access to some pretty good machinists and I like a challenge. PLEASE, if you have any type of lead on one of these rare things please send it my way, I will pursue it, I'm not here to waste anyone's time!!

PS: While I am on the fence about going FCR, I am also lowkey on the hunt for some 40mm Non-US market BST carbs, if anyone has any leads!

Any help would be much appreciated.

[wombat258]

I have one in use, but I am not selling. Be aware that they were supplied with water jackets or without jackets. They are indeed very rare to find.

[Captain Chaos]

3 hours ago, djayedot said:

I know this is technically a "Wanted" post, but I didn't see a classifieds section on here,

you need to make 50 posts and then you'll see the marketplace. RTFR.

And post some pics of your very special WC. We like pics.

[clivegto]

Get one made. 

[djayedot]

Well boys, here she is. Purchased her roughly 2014/2015 and has been beyond loyal to me ever since then. My first "real streetbike", if you will. (I've owned a few Ninja 250's, Katana's, and dualsport DR350's before, but those don't really count.) Suspension was set up prior to me buying the bike but I am VERY happy and confident with it, guess I got lucky with my weight and riding style... No real planned suspension changes for the future, other than that cool "SP" model 750W swingarm with the gusseted-style bracing (the actual term for it escapes me at the moment). 

 

Modifications include (in no specific order):

-Paint (done before my ownership of bike) some weird nearly-black purplish color with TONS of flake in it. Wheels match. I love it but am scared to death of ever having to try to match it in the future...

-ZX7R hydraulic clutch master cylinder, fully rebuilt. Nice lil Rizoma bracketry for the reservoir.

-ASV shorty levers. Absolutely love these.

-APE manual cam chain tensioner.

-Vortex Keyless Fuel Cap (Believe this was originally intended for an early Busa)

-Pingel dual outlet fuel valve. Not much of a mod but it does what it's supposed to do. Wish it had a reserve position though, lol.

-Factory Pro ignition advance rotor

-Pingel catch can with cute little K&N breather filter. It's hilarious to look at.

-Yuasa YTZ14S battery. Again, not much of a "mod" but it does fit in the same space as original battery and gives you ALOT more sauce. Also have a little go-no go monitor fitted to the top clamp to keep an eye on any overcharging/undercharging malfunctions. Can't remember who makes that part, maybe KOSO?

-Sunstar/DID ZVM-X #530 Chain/Sprockets (Quick accel gearing, originally -1 front, +2 in the rear If I remember correctly? For better accel back when the bike was 600cc... I don't recall what tooth count I went to after 1100 swap, believe I ended up going up a tooth or two in the front.) I do remember specifically that I wanted to stay #530 because of future 1100 plans...

-Michelin Pilot Power 3 Tires 120/70 front, 180/55? rear. Excited to try out the new power 5's but after 1100 swap would really like to get into a 190 rear, currently considering both rear wheel widening or BST carbon's but god they're pricey...

-Coil on plug conversion, had weak spark in cold/moist conditions. Did the conversion and fixed the issue whist looking cooler doing so...

-1100W 6-pot Tokico front brake calipers (as well as somewhat newer "round hole" brake discs, bought secondhand) these were done after purchasing donor bike 1/4.

-2007ish GSXR1000 Radial front master cylinder. REALLY liked the improvement in front brake feel/modulation with this.

-Handmade AN lines for all brakes as well as 1100W hydraulic clutch ("T" style front line, not a fan of dual line setups).

-Dynojet standalone quickshifter. Man, that thing is a BLAST but I do partially blame it for my current second gear woes LOL.

-Factory Pro "Configuration 30" jet kit. Supposedly specific for these 36mm Mikuni BST carbs with pod filters. Haven't toyed with it enough to form a judgement yet, but it's definitely closer than a stock-jetted BST carb running pod filters, I'll say that.

-Single Cable Throttle Modification: Honestly one of my favorite mods to this bike. Made it go from feeling like a Goldwing to a YZ125 in about 5 minutes...

-Yoshimura header. (600 setup had the two piece 600/750 4-2-1 joint, luckily I found the equivalent 1100W 4-1 part during the course of the swap.)

-WINGS exhaust (Ignore the trash ass fake SC Project that is on the bike in some of the pics, that was only for initial 1100W swap testing purposes.) This is a nice and seldom heard-of part that is made in NZ in low volumes. Mine was originally intended for an 1190 KTM adventure bike which I fabricated a cera-koted midpipe for. Very, very nice titanium/carbon fiber construction, remarkably lightweight but the enclosure has a good bit of volume so it's a nice deep, smooth tone. Seriously impressive build quality.

-TOBY side-mount steering stabilizer. Not trying to brag here, but as far as I can tell I bought the second-to-last new old stock one of these on the planet (direct from Belgium) and I spent an arm and a nut on it. Let me have my moment of glory LOL. Seriously though, worthwhile modification. I've had only a few shaky moments back in the 600cc days, but as velocities increased with the 1100, I am certain that this thing has already saved my life on multiple occasions.

-A bunch of various deletes/lightenings. Future modifications include: Al or Ti front cowl framework, polycarbonate headlight lens, Al or Ti rear sub-subframe (you know, the one that hangs below the subframe, with the luggage hooks on it), and a slender CNC'd aluminum sidestand.

-Austin

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by djayedot
Forgot some things.

[djayedot]

Also, to address the other comments- thank you for your replies. 

 

1- I did not know that SBM made both a liquid cooled and solid version of these. I most certainly need the watercooled version. By the way, after learning first-hand just how hot these 1100W's run (even with a complete, bone stock cooling system) I do understand that I will need to make some serious cooling system improvements for street use... My current plan is to revert back to a 600W/750W "pancake style" oil cooler/heat exchanger and in place of the 1100W oil cooler run a Ducati lower radiator (the exact Duc models that had these I can't recall at the moment, maybe newer 848's?) for added primary cooling system capacity. If anyone knows of an aftermarket high-flow waterpump impeller for these bikes, please let me know. At this point I will be switching to Engine Ice as well, although improvements from it are negligible at best...

2- Getting one made from scratch is most certainly my plan Z. Although I'm dreading the costs associated. My guess is the most time/cost consuming part will be measuring up the OEM cylinder in a CAD program. While it *looks* like a pretty simple part, there's QUITE a few dimensions involved there, especially concerning the water passages and chain tensioner. But let's say worst case scenario I end up going that route- does anyone know of an off-the-shelf cylinder sleeve I can use for this? Guess I need to call LA Sleeve...

 

-Austin

Edited February 6, 2022 by djayedot
Engine Ice is life br0

[Madb]

Nice to see another lover of w/c. If you are getting 40mm look to the uk. You willl need the carb rubbers to go with them. Don't know how the 38mm would work on the 1100, but worth checking out.

As for the "Braced" swing arm , it was fitted to the 94 and 95 models. not specific to the sp. you can fit the later K 750 arms too, Bit not both at the same time.

If you have a 5.5 rear wheel don't fit a 190 on it. It will pinch it and make the handling weird. Ask me how i know. you would need a six inch rim.

Oh and of coarse, Welcome to OSS.

 

[djayedot]

1 hour ago, Madb said:

Welcome to OSS.

 

Thanks for the reply man!

 

You know the funny part is, I actually HAD a set of those 38mm 750 carbs (with the extra fuel circuit) that I originally planned to run on this swap. Even bought all the special, hard to find rebuild parts from LiteTek in order to do a full, thorough refresh of them. Long story long, I ended up going through FOUR donor 1100W's before I finally had a setup I liked enough to pull the trigger and proceed with tearing down the 600. During that time there was a couple year pause and the 38mm's got sold, stupid move... I feel like if I just went that route I'd be happy enough with them at this point but oh well.

Now that I'm considering putting some serious funds into the motor, I'm honestly starting to think that maybe even the 40's won't be enough, and maybe I should just go with FCR's? I'm very familiar with them from the dirtbike world and pretty comfortable tuning them (in my head, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that 4 of them could ever fit in there, but clearly it's been done a million times). I don't know squat about the regular flatslides like TMR's and those other Keihin ones, but to me, they seem kinda low-tech for a street driven GSXR...

By the way, the whole reason why this motor is coming apart now is because I let the smoke out of 2nd gear this season. The quickshifter didn't do it, me getting LAZY with my foot whilst using the quickshifter did it. Lesson learned there. Anyways, current plans for this go around are: 1298cc SBM jugs, either Wiseco, JE, or Wossner pistons with a HEALTHY CR. Probably stress relieve and weight match/rebalance stock rods and crank. Moderate head porting, still unsure on cams but I want something with a broad power range, adjustable cam sprockets, probably valvesprings if required. Would like to get CDI modified and bump the revlimit up 1000rpm *depending on how feasible that is*. Most likely going to get trans undercut slightly. Factory Pro shift star kit and alllll the replacement parts for what I tore up this past season (two gears, all shift forks, probably a shift drum too). Plus the aforementioned cooling system mods.

I've always had this pipe dream in the back of my head about running a 750W 6 speed trans (don't even get me started on how much I hate this 5 speed) with a 600/750 style RH side cable clutch. I usually don't care for hydro clutches. But I got away from that on my initial build after seeing just how different the clutch baskets and primary drive gears were. It would've been a PROJECT, not to mention word on the street is it won't hold up. Plus, now that I got this hydro clutch set up pretty well, I don't hate it as much as I thought I would.

As for the wheel yes it's a 5.5 and I love the way this thing handles too much to go throwing a 190 on there... I'm just not yet sure if the expense of widening is worth it for a measly 1/2 inch... I have had no traction issues with this 180 so far, but as the power levels increase I do expect things to get a little dicey. Maybe a 200 rear would make it more worth it? (Wait, don't crucify me!!! I am NOT one of those "Eblag stretch kit, big rear tire, toce exhaust, samurai knife levers on my craigslist R6" idiots LOL) But alot of these new high end Duc's and I believe R1's are coming with them and they look right at home... Do they typically run those on a 6 or 6.5 wheel? Also, I believe some 1100W's came with a 6.00 from the factory, no? Problem is they use the bigger style cush drive and while I definitely could run one no problem, I like the look of the smaller 600W cush drive. Not going to lie, I also like telling people about how the 600W wheels are special and lighter than the others LMAO, no matter how negligeble the difference may be...

 

So, what's everyones thoughts on:

-Carbs

-Rev limit +1000

-Good street cam suggestions

-200 rear tire

-750W trans (before I totally scrap the idea)

 

Thanks in advance!!!

-Austin

Edited February 7, 2022 by djayedot

[Madb]

We have all been there. Oh, i won't need these anymore. .... A few weeks later, Now why did I put them carbs, "why did I sell them!" 

Oh the moto X days,(70 and early 80's for me) I do miss them, Single carb so much easier to set up. With exception of them evil Lectrons. flat out and nothing else. I have and rf900 with the 750 head and 38mm in my suzy 750 frame and i believe the 600 shares the same frame. Not much room for the carbs. How the 1100 will fair is going to be tight.

 you may better off going FI and add and Ignitech ignition.  gsxr 600 throttle bodies are the ones to look for. Very good gear. Ask in the General section on here. someone will point you in the right place. If ya fancy going that far, otherwise they do and ordinary type to replace the standard cdi.

. Clutches are fixed to the cc of the engine. rf9 fits only rf9, 1100 only fit the 1100 etc. Been there and thought nah. It would be doable but Not worth it as would wouldn't achieve any benefit from it. So, yes you did the right thing too. I hated the thought of a hydro clutch but now i have arthritis it has been worth keeping.

second gear is a known fault on these 1100 motor but as you say under cut them and you should  be good to go.

[Madb]

And as you live stateside you should find some good info on tuning.

[Joseph]

-Mikuni RS will do fine

-Will you need 1000 extra rpm for street use ? Not sure the 11s like overrevving too much/too often, but then again how often do you redline your streetbike ?

-95-96 1100 swingarm has the brace AND the same length as your current one. The 750 is highly sought after so its is highly expensive as well as 5cm shorter. You may not want a shorter arm on a big bore 1100 

-200 tyre is probably unnecessary, people don't seem to keep using them on those few bikes that were delivered with them as stock fitment.

-I have a 6 speed on my 1216 oiler with cams carbs ported head etc and i love the feel and action. It hasn't blown up either, I think that the lifespan of the 6 speed box is always challenged when put in an 11, but it's a good mod i feel.

I don't drag or track race my bike and it is holding up no problem

Edited February 7, 2022 by Joseph

[Joseph]

Oh and don't bother with any of those magic fluids supposed to improve cooling.

Physics are physics, the most efficient coolant is pure water. But of course, it's freezing and corrosive properties need blocking out, hence using anti freeze.

All those expensive alternatives are just marketing ploys. 

With a clean block and good radiator it should be fine. People often blame the initial design of a vehicles cooling system without considering the current condition of it 30 or 40 years down the line.

[dupersunc]

2 hours ago, Joseph said:

Oh and don't bother with any of those magic fluids supposed to improve cooling.

Physics are physics, the most efficient coolant is pure water. But of course, it's freezing and corrosive properties need blocking out, hence using anti freeze.

All those expensive alternatives are just marketing ploys. 

With a clean block and good radiator it should be fine. People often blame the initial design of a vehicles cooling system without considering the current condition of it 30 or 40 years down the line.

Water "wetters" that increase the surface area, and water/Glycol mixed 50:50 are both proven to be slightly better at cooling engines than pure water.  Unless you are circuit racing where only pure water is allowed, I'd always run a coolant additive, more for the corrosion inhibitors than anything else.

[Madb]

Water wetting agents can be got from photography supply. very cheap and ya only need a few drops

The 1100 braced arms are 60mm longer than the 750 version As Joseph said, may want the longer one.

The six speed box is not worth putting in the 1100 w/cooled bikes. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Madb

[Gammaboy]

Lower radiator you're looking at is probably a Panigale rad.

[Swiss Toni]

Jeez! That’s some spec list! Welcome to OSS 

[djayedot]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:12 PM, Madb said:

We have all been there. Oh, i won't need these anymore. .... A few weeks later, Now why did I put them carbs, "why did I sell them!" 

Oh the moto X days,(70 and early 80's for me) I do miss them, Single carb so much easier to set up. With exception of them evil Lectrons. flat out and nothing else. I have and rf900 with the 750 head and 38mm in my suzy 750 frame and i believe the 600 shares the same frame. Not much room for the carbs. How the 1100 will fair is going to be tight.

 you may better off going FI and add and Ignitech ignition.  gsxr 600 throttle bodies are the ones to look for. Very good gear. Ask in the General section on here. someone will point you in the right place. If ya fancy going that far, otherwise they do and ordinary type to replace the standard cdi.

. Clutches are fixed to the cc of the engine. rf9 fits only rf9, 1100 only fit the 1100 etc. Been there and thought nah. It would be doable but Not worth it as would wouldn't achieve any benefit from it. So, yes you did the right thing too. I hated the thought of a hydro clutch but now i have arthritis it has been worth keeping.

second gear is a known fault on these 1100 motor but as you say under cut them and you should  be good to go.

Oh man, Lectrons!! Still don't understand all the hype on them personally (or "Smartcarbs" for that matter). But anyhow, I think FI is just a little bit too crazy for me. Surely it would be cool, but I already know I'd try to push the envelope and run E85 or something stupid and that's a road I don't want to go down. While I'm fully prepared for the abysmal fuel economy to come, it IS a fully street driven bike and I have to draw the line somewhere, lol.

 

And yeah about the clutch and gearbox matter, while I have some crazy ideas in my head, I'll be honest this past season I've come to accept the hydro clutch and 5spd for what it is...  Not that bad, and if it means saving a little time/money on the build AND having a little more strength and reliability for when I start making decent power, I'll gladly keep it.

 

As far as the undercutting is concerned- will I notice much higher shift effort? Will this be an issue for the quickshifter? I would assume I'd need to bump up the cut time- although I believe I'm already at 88ms now because I *thought* it would be nicer to the trans giving it some extra time, lmao.

[djayedot]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:24 AM, Joseph said:

-Mikuni RS will do fine

-Will you need 1000 extra rpm for street use ? Not sure the 11s like overrevving too much/too often, but then again how often do you redline your streetbike ?

-95-96 1100 swingarm has the brace AND the same length as your current one. The 750 is highly sought after so its is highly expensive as well as 5cm shorter. You may not want a shorter arm on a big bore 1100 

-200 tyre is probably unnecessary, people don't seem to keep using them on those few bikes that were delivered with them as stock fitment.

-I have a 6 speed on my 1216 oiler with cams carbs ported head etc and i love the feel and action. It hasn't blown up either, I think that the lifespan of the 6 speed box is always challenged when put in an 11, but it's a good mod i feel.

I don't drag or track race my bike and it is holding up no problem

I definitely like the price point of the RS's. Am I missing out on much by going with them instead of FCR's? Also, how do those pricey TMR's stack up against the FCR's (again I'm using the FCR at the baseline here because that's what I'm most familiar with and I know they most certainly DO make excellent power when setup right).

 

As far as the redline is concerned I guess it just comes down to the way I learned to ride... I really cut my teeth with this 600 back in the day and well, you guys know how they make power... I ended up teaching myself to keep it in the power VERY effectively i.e. riding it like an RM125. While never free-revved or held there for very long at all, the bike would kiss the revlimiter pretty regularly on a good night of hard riding. And now that the 1100 motor is in there, I kinda miss that aspect. Obviously it's not going to be comfortable at the same engine speeds as the smaller motor but I just feel like I could benefit from a TINY bit more headroom, only if it's safe.

 

For the swingarm, believe it or not I thoroughly enjoy the short 600/750 arm. I'm not too scared of surprise wheelies, but I am a bit scared of blowing the rear tire off at the wrong time, hence why I'm trying to get a *slightly* bigger contact patch back there...

 

As for the fancy coolant, there's plenty of data supporting that some of these gourmet coolants help maintain a slightly lower operating temp. But that is 100% due to the water-wetting aspect of the fluid. Aside from that, I am an Engine Ice fan due to the fact it's nontoxic, and seems to have a decent anticorrosion package as it seems to last and stay clean about as long as regular ethylene glycol coolant does. What I DO NOT like about it is the serviceability aspect- if I am 100 miles away from home and need to top off at some random gas station, I am most likely BEAT... 

[djayedot]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:59 AM, Gammaboy said:

Lower radiator you're looking at is probably a Panigale rad.

Thanks man. I actually did some digging and you are correct- although I actually need the *upper* Panigale rad, but I will be running it in a lower position. Hope it can be made to fit, sure looks bigger in pics than I recalled! I will have to chop off and weld up the filler neck, of course.

 

Question about the oil cooler conversion- Can I just make a bypass tube between the two banjo bolt oil cooler connections? Or must I go to a 600/750 oil pan and pickup that doesn't have them? Not sure if my header will clear one due to the different sump design...

Edited February 14, 2022 by djayedot

[djayedot]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:39 AM, Swiss Toni said:

Jeez! That’s some spec list! Welcome to OSS 

Thanks man! Hoping to grow that list soon!!! Love these oldschool GSXR's.

[Gammaboy]

12 hours ago, djayedot said:

Thanks man. I actually did some digging and you are correct- although I actually need the *upper* Panigale rad, but I will be running it in a lower position. Hope it can be made to fit, sure looks bigger in pics than I recalled! I will have to chop off and weld up the filler neck, of course.

 

Question about the oil cooler conversion- Can I just make a bypass tube between the two banjo bolt oil cooler connections? Or must I go to a 600/750 oil pan and pickup that doesn't have them? Not sure if my header will clear one due to the different sump design...

Bypass pipe will work. Not sure if there's a way to make the bypass internal though. 

[djayedot]

Well guys,

Bit of a small/pointless update. Monday evening I picked up donor bike number FIVE for this project... For absolutely zero reason at all other than it was CHEAP and only a couple hours away. 1995 US model, 16K on the clock, missing tank, side fairings, *carbs* (remember that for later), and front cowl/headlight. It was so cheap I asked zero questions other than "was the bike covered after carbs were removed" seller's reply to that was "yes, all ports were plugged and bike was kept under a tarp since then".

Well, you probably already know where this story is headed... Wrote up a quick bill of sale, gave the man his $300, and loaded up in the middle of the Pennsylvania woods at around midnight. Super dark out, couldn't see much of anything. Didn't look, didn't ask, didn't care. 

Tore into the bike last night to find my gut suspicions confirmed... Intake ports are all orange, valves look like doodoo, and of course one set of intakes was open so there's about 1/4" of water in that cylinder, although the others had some too. Locked up solid. SMH!!! Crazy how careless/clueless people can be. Real shame because it looked well cared for otherwise.

With that said, my last minute plan of finding a spare stock motor to run in the meantime while I build this current one is canceled. I'm going in!!!

-Austin

[wombat258]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:27 PM, djayedot said:

Thanks man. I actually did some digging and you are correct- although I actually need the *upper* Panigale rad, but I will be running it in a lower position. Hope it can be made to fit, sure looks bigger in pics than I recalled! I will have to chop off and weld up the filler neck, of course.

 

Question about the oil cooler conversion- Can I just make a bypass tube between the two banjo bolt oil cooler connections? Or must I go to a 600/750 oil pan and pickup that doesn't have them? Not sure if my header will clear one due to the different sump design...

You can use the 1100W pan without oil cooler. Remove the internal restrictor that you can see through one of the oil cooler outlets, and plug the oil cooler ports. The oil cooler normally works on a partial oil flow.

[Kamikaze]

On 2/24/2022 at 12:04 AM, djayedot said:

Well guys,

Bit of a small/pointless update. Monday evening I picked up donor bike number FIVE for this project... For absolutely zero reason at all other than it was CHEAP and only a couple hours away. 1995 US model, 16K on the clock, missing tank, side fairings, *carbs* (remember that for later), and front cowl/headlight. It was so cheap I asked zero questions other than "was the bike covered after carbs were removed" seller's reply to that was "yes, all ports were plugged and bike was kept under a tarp since then".

Well, you probably already know where this story is headed... Wrote up a quick bill of sale, gave the man his $300, and loaded up in the middle of the Pennsylvania woods at around midnight. Super dark out, couldn't see much of anything. Didn't look, didn't ask, didn't care. 

Tore into the bike last night to find my gut suspicions confirmed... Intake ports are all orange, valves look like doodoo, and of course one set of intakes was open so there's about 1/4" of water in that cylinder, although the others had some too. Locked up solid. SMH!!! Crazy how careless/clueless people can be. Real shame because it looked well cared for otherwise.

With that said, my last minute plan of finding a spare stock motor to run in the meantime while I build this current one is canceled. I'm going in!!!

-Austin

sucks to hear dude.....its always the same story, ppl have no idea. I hope u salvage something from it. for 300 bucks at least u have a frame and bits u can sell off. Everything is becoming more and more rare for these things atm.

[johnr]

regarding cooling, is there any benefit to using one of the modern waterless coolants that seem to be gaining in popularity in the classic vehicle world because being water free, you cant boil it off no matter how hot it gets. no idea if anybody has tried them yet?