Bigger Better Brakes

[Spirit]

I am looking for guidance from anyone who has applied six-piston calipers onto an EFE front end. I'm not changing forks; I want more swept caliper area. I am also thinking of trying Pretech calipers as well, though I have no problem with Suzuki 6's of they are compatible with the EFE thickness rotors. Anyone got info and/or experience?

[Reinhoud]

Try sintered brake pads, or a smaller diameter master cylinder.

I have no experience with 6 piston calipers, but I've heard they're not better but worse then 4 piston ones.

Sintered brake pads brake a hell of a lot better then organic ones, braided brake lines are also quite noticeable.

[neil w]

Fair enough Pretech 6 pot calipers but on my Kat I have had both Nissin 4 pot calipers and Tokico 6 pot calipers (with matching master cylinders and both running EBC HH pads ) and despite the Tokicos being fully rebuilt with new seals the 4 pots give a much better feel and more bite to the the brakes .

By all accounts Nissin 6 pot calipers are vastly superior but like hens teeth to get hold of , I would also consider a set of later Brembo 4 pot calipers

[R1guy]

11 hours ago, Spirit said:

I am also thinking of trying Pretech calipers as well....

Not gonna be cheap .... for this sort of money you could get some custom brackets made to take radial calipers

[Swiss Toni]

Just go with the 4 pots! Cap'n Chaos posted a while ago how to do it on a std. EFE front end. Well, relatively std! EFE forks, Slingshot front wheel, Teapot discs and a few spacers. Look it up. But then, you might want to change the rear to a 17" too! 'Fatties' look good with modern running gear! 

[Gixer1460]

Can't comment on ultimate stopping power but my set up uses PVM 13" discs, GSXR1000 6 pot Nissins on adapters to put the pads directly central to rotor wear surface, all using an AP master. They have'nt a 'hard lever' feel just very progressive, but I reckon their strong enough to lock at any speed if stupid enough!

[Jonny]

I'd invest in a radial master cylinder, and stay with Nissin 4-pots.

[Spirit]

On 4/23/2017 at 10:38 PM, Reinhoud said:

Try sintered brake pads, or a smaller diameter master cylinder.

I have no experience with 6 piston calipers, but I've heard they're not better but worse then 4 piston ones.

Sintered brake pads brake a hell of a lot better then organic ones, braided brake lines are also quite noticeable.

You advise a smaller master cylinder diameter - why? I was almost ready to go with a bigger piston...

[Spirit]

On 4/24/2017 at 7:32 AM, Swiss Toni said:

Just go with the 4 pots! Cap'n Chaos posted a while ago how to do it on a std. EFE front end. Well, relatively std! EFE forks, Slingshot front wheel, Teapot discs and a few spacers. Look it up. But then, you might want to change the rear to a 17" too! 'Fatties' look good with modern running gear! 

Do you have the link for Cap'n Chaos' conversion?

[Gixer1460]

35 minutes ago, Spirit said:

You advise a smaller master cylinder diameter - why? I was almost ready to go with a bigger piston...

A smaller master cyl. dia. will produce more pressure with downside of longer lever travel - bigger cyl. will move more fluid, so harder lever but less pressure on the caliper pistons - all a balancing act and what you feel happy with!

[Swiss Toni]

4 hours ago, Spirit said:

Do you have the link for Cap'n Chaos' conversion?

He'll be along shortly, no doubt! Off the top of me head, I remember he used Slingshot front wheel, 4 pot Nissins and either 600 or 750 Teapot discs. Used spacers on the caliper mounting points to centre them. Can't remember if the speedo drive had to be 'massaged' to fit.  It's an easy upgrade!

Edited April 27, 2017 by Swiss Toni
Speeling

[Reinhoud]

On 4/26/2017 at 1:06 PM, Spirit said:

You advise a smaller master cylinder diameter - why? I was almost ready to go with a bigger piston...

So, you didn't pay attention at school during physics..

It's a bout the ratio between the master cylinder and pistons, basically what say what now!? 1460 says.

Bigger piston does actually the same as a smaller master.

There's something else, but I don't know how this exactly goes and if I'm right with this, hopefully someone else knows more about this; the friction between your brake pads and discs, when you put 6 piston calipers on your bike, I ASSUME you have bigger brake pads, therefore I ASSUME you have less pressure per square centimeter what can result in less braking force.

Surface area is good, and pressure per square cm is what you want, and this in the right ratios.

Again; assumptions from my side.

 

What I mention in my earlier post, is all what I know what works well

[Captain Chaos]

9 hours ago, Spirit said:

Do you have the link for Cap'n Chaos' conversion?

http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/archives/category/modifications/wheel-swaps

[Solcambs]

Basically if you like short lever travel go with a bigger master piston. if you like longer travel and more feel, go with a smaller master piston. 19 radial works well with the Nissin 4 pots IIRC. 

[Dezza]

For pose value and performance, Brembo 4 pots as used on 999 Ducatis, Aprillia Milles, and some KTMs offer good VFM. A secondhand Brembo radial mc works well with these (19/20). What makes the biggest difference though is the pads. I have the set up as described above with Spondon SS discs. Stock (probably old) Brembo pads and I have to squeeze hard to get any decent stopping performance. Some new Ferodos and I am nearly over the handlebars on less lever pressure, even before bedding in properly.

[Solcambs]

21 hours ago, Dezza said:

For pose value and performance, Brembo 4 pots as used on 999 Ducatis, Aprillia Milles, and some KTMs offer good VFM.

Brembo "Goldline" IIRC were always favoured in the Supermoto community as they are small, and you could shave the back of them also, to help with tight clearances between disks and sopkes.

[Gammaboy]

On 28/04/2017 at 6:28 PM, Solcambs said:

Brembo "Goldline" IIRC were always favoured in the Supermoto community as they are small, and you could shave the back of them also, to help with tight clearances between disks and sopkes.

They're 40mm back face overhang by the way - same as the gold Nissins from the VTRs and blades of the 90's.