GSx1100 Dresda Solitaire (I may have had a Clivecident).

[imago]

You know when you say "No more projects" and the Gods of Hamamatsu piss themselves laughing? Well they're apparently in a particularly mischievous mood at the moment.

Long story involving a dose of "I couldn't refuse the opportunity" means I will shortly be in possession of a Dresda frame with aluminium tank, braced arm and RGV bodywork which was built for a GS 1000 lump. 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by imago

[slayer61]

I have to tell you... it pisses me off that that stuff just isn't available here in the states.

 

Pretty jealous here.   

[imago]

15 minutes ago, slayer61 said:

I have to tell you... it pisses me off that that stuff just isn't available here in the states.

 

Pretty jealous here.   

Get a shipping price and you can save me from myself. 

[imago]

The little I've found out so far about these is that there were 9 of these 'Solitaire' frames made by Dave Degens in the 1970s following his success both in racing and with building Triton frames. A couple were made for Yamaha, the rest being for CB900s and GS1000s. They were sold as kits with the option of you supply the donor and they'd build them like Harris etc. They were raced, but there's no info I can find so far on by who or where.

If anyone has anymore info or can point me in the direction of somewhere I can find some then please do.

[clivegto]

How cool is that 

Nice find 

[GeorgeEI7KO]

Slap in an oil boiler and proper running gear jack the arse of it up a bit and loose that fairing it's too big! And perhaps a turbo! Lol. 

[imago]

50 minutes ago, clivegto said:

How cool is that 

Nice find 

You'll be the first person to see it. The bloke lives about 20 minutes North of Spilsby so after I've dropped the throwback off there I'm picking it up on the way to yours next Thursday. 

[imago]

31 minutes ago, GeorgeEI7KO said:

Slap in an oil boiler and proper running gear jack the arse of it up a bit and loose that fairing it's too big! And perhaps a turbo! Lol. 

I'm still pondering engine plans, but at this stage it's going to be normally aspirated and keep it as light as possible. Like the Harris these were frames designed for the race track so I need to keep with that I reckon.

[clivegto]

1 hour ago, imago said:

I'm still pondering engine plans, but at this stage it's going to be normally aspirated and keep it as light as possible. Like the Harris these were frames designed for the race track so I need to keep with that I reckon.

Light is fun, these old frames work really well in my experience with modern upgrades. Look forward to seeing int flesh. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by clivegto

[Rsvfletch]

My mate owns one with a GS1000 motor. I think there was a very brief post on here years ago before he bought it. 

[imago]

56 minutes ago, Rsvfletch said:

My mate owns one with a GS1000 motor. I think there was a very brief post on here years ago before he bought it. 

Yeah I saw that thread, shame nothing's happened with it since.

[imago]

Thanks to @Havoc's suggestion to join UK Specials on FaceAche I've not only got more info on the bike and its history, the previous owner's on there and has a photo of the bike at the Bol D'or in the 1990s showing the Q plate reg it had which is still on the DVLA system so I can apply for a logbook. 

[imago]

Having been caught on the hop a bit with the appearance of another project it's taken a minute or two to (mostly) settle on a plan. Until I actually get it in the workshop there will be stuff that will be more mights & maybes than certain.

So at the moment my thinking is this. The photo from the '90s shows it with the RG bodywork in black with orange stripes and lettering, and an orange frame similar to the Walter Wolf scheme. Looks pretty good in that so I think that's the way it'll go.

Engine wise I'd like to use a GS1000 done to 1085 with a flowed head etc. but that'll be an expensive route to go down. However, if it'll fit in the frame I have that Roger Upperton ET engine with an 1170 big bore, flowed head with EF valves fitted just waiting for a home. That way the only cost (still a chunk) for a serious normally aspirated period engine would be a set of flat slides. I even have a solid Harris works exhaust to complete the look.

That leaves the suspension, keep the existing wheels and have them coated at the same time as the frame and arm. Shocks are an easy bolt on, and see what's what with some RWU forks.

I'm trying to avoid it becoming a money pit as I have the Throwback build for that. 

 

[Wagola]

30 minutes ago, imago said:

Having been caught on the hop a bit with the appearance of another project it's taken a minute or two to (mostly) settle on a plan. Until I actually get it in the workshop there will be stuff that will be more mights & maybes than certain.

So at the moment my thinking is this. The photo from the '90s shows it with the RG bodywork in black with orange stripes and lettering, and an orange frame similar to the Walter Wolf scheme. Looks pretty good in that so I think that's the way it'll go.

Engine wise I'd like to use a GS1000 done to 1085 with a flowed head etc. but that'll be an expensive route to go down. However, if it'll fit in the frame I have that Roger Upperton ET engine with an 1170 big bore, flowed head with EF valves fitted just waiting for a home. That way the only cost (still a chunk) for a serious normally aspirated period engine would be a set of flat slides. I even have a solid Harris works exhaust to complete the look.

That leaves the suspension, keep the existing wheels and have them coated at the same time as the frame and arm. Shocks are an easy bolt on, and see what's what with some RWU forks.

I'm trying to avoid it becoming a money pit as I have the Throwback build for that. 

 

Looks like it has RG expansion end cans fitted on the exhaust as well !! 

[imago]

4 minutes ago, Wagola said:

Looks like it has RG expansion end cans fitted on the exhaust as well !! 

I know some rave about them, but those GT 750's were fucking horrible things IMHO. My brief experience back in the day was that they're heavy, thirsty, not very reliable and needed more maintenance than something from Italy.

So I'm more than happy it got binned off in favour of an inline four. 

[DAZ]

The gsx1170 motor would be the right choice over an oil cooled one in my opinion, gs 1085 would be nice but you seem to have a few air cooled motors awaiting good homes 

[imago]

4 minutes ago, DAZ said:

The gsx1170 motor would be the right choice over an oil cooled one in my opinion, gs 1085 would be nice but you seem to have a few air cooled motors awaiting good homes 

My thinking exactly. Any GS1000 engine now is going to need an extensive and expensive rebuild, so spending a small fortune on a 1085 seems like a daft thing to do when the more powerful air cooled engine is sitting there at zero cost beyond the carbs. 

 

[Swiss Toni]

18 hours ago, imago said:

The little I've found out so far about these is that there were 9 of these 'Solitaire' frames made by Dave Degens in the 1970s following his success both in racing and with building Triton frames. A couple were made for Yamaha, the rest being for CB900s and GS1000s. They were sold as kits with the option of you supply the donor and they'd build them like Harris etc. They were raced, but there's no info I can find so far on by who or where.

If anyone has anymore info or can point me in the direction of somewhere I can find some then please do.

Drop Dave Degens an email. He’ll probably fill in the gaps?

[imago]

5 minutes ago, Swiss Toni said:

Drop Dave Degens an email. He’ll probably fill in the gaps?

There's a bloke who knows the family that's going to ask, although the very early info will be all about the GT750 side of things. Apparently he only made 4 of these particular frames so it's a rare bird, but the thought of getting tangled up with Kettle rivet counters doesn't blow my frock up.

So it'll be the GS/GSX evolution I'm focusing on. 

[Captain Chaos]

1 hour ago, imago said:

the thought of getting tangled up with Kettle rivet counters doesn't blow my frock up.

On that subject... I wonder which rivet counters would get more sand in their vaginas: the Kettle lovers who complain that it's not a Kettle specific frame, or the Hodna freaks who cry that a HB1 has been messed with

 

[imago]

20 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

On that subject... I wonder which rivet counters would get more sand in their vaginas: the Kettle lovers who complain that it's not a Kettle specific frame, or the Hodna freaks who cry that a HB1 has been messed with

 

That'd be a full house and upset them all. 

[imago]

Obviously I've been kicking some ideas around for this, and whilst broadly speaking the overall plan (back to black/orange with a tuned GSX engine) works I'm coming around to a stage in between.

If I get a running GS1000 engine and fit it then attend to forks, bearings and a bit of fettling with brakes and the like it could be up and running very quickly. So my thinking is to try and do just that whilst I have a lull with the throwback.

The bodywork will be weeks yet, and I imagine a similar time frame for the bike at FBM. The cases I'm building the engine into along with the twiddly bits will be at Brian's for a while. That means that I'd have a clear month where I can't do anything with the Trowback. If I can get the Dresda up and running in that time without messing around with the time consuming paintwork, and do it without spending a fortune it'd make for a good run around bike.

None of the time or money spent would be wasted as I wouldn't be doing anything twice come time for the 'pretty build' of it. Plus I'd be able to properly focus on it once the Throwback was in a finished state. 

Thoughts? Does that sound a reasonable approach?

[DAZ]

Have you got a complete and running gsx motor rather than having to buy a gs ? Why spend ££££ on a motor your not going to keep? Either the gsx will fit or not 

[imago]

5 minutes ago, DAZ said:

Have you got a complete and running gsx motor rather than having to buy a gs ? Why spend ££££ on a motor your not going to keep? Either the gsx will fit or not 

I have three currently stripped, two for refresh and one for the crank upgrade for the turbo. That leaves one complete that's OK as far as I know but I'd want to open it and check. Then there's one which is a cracking runner but the cases are a bit shady (broken clutch cable threads, cover threads stripped etc) and I have new cases to build it into but they're currently being used as a mock up for the draw through fitting.

Then there's the Upperton engine which is a built up bottom end, the 1170 barrels and flowed big valve head are currently on the black ET so that they could be run in. That's the engine I'd use for the Dresda as it'll make the most potent normally aspirated.

So whichever way I go with the GSX engines there's some work ranging from a bit to a full build. When I fit the GSX engine to it I'm not going to half arse it, everything will need to be spot on. There's no point doing that in a scabby frame so that and everything else would need to go for powdercoat and paint. That turns it into another full strip and build job which I don't really have time for at the moment.

So my choices at the moment are to either do the quick and dirty to get it running and riding with a GS engine. Or, shove it into the container and wait until I have time to do it justice which realistically will be a year or so before it got started.

On balance I'd rather get it on the road and use it instead of shoving it in a container.

[clivegto]

You are assuming you might find a good GS motor which your more than likely to strip down for a look see anyway. Build the 1170 up for it, there's no chance you get it up and running in 1 month even if you find a mint motor which will cost you a fortune anyway. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by clivegto