Got a dot head for my 1100N

[Panos]

Just received a dot head to replace my shim head for my 1100N and to my disappointment the surface on no4 cylinder is pitted by something while running .

If i have the head skimmed enough  compression gets too high i think , i also plan on getting it bored to 1216 with wossner pistons .

I remember reading here @HWBhad detonation issues with his skimmed dot head .

Also a machine shop i know can weld the area then skim it , is this the way to go ?

Anybody had to deal with something like before ?

 

[clivegto]

I'd just clean it up and use it as it is, shouldn't be a problem.

[Panos]

3 minutes ago, clivegto said:

I'd just clean it up and use it as it is, shouldn't be a problem.

So i could clean it up and make the rest of the chambers the same cc's ?

I was worried about the squish area , forgot about 1100's having wider pistons...

 

[DAZ]

I'd check what the compression would be with a 1216 kit before anything else if that is definitely in your future,what is advertised as  say 11:1 would become 12.5:1 with a dot head ,more if it's skimmed just something to bear in mind is there an issue with the stock head? I think if it's ok you maybe better using the std head and spending the cash on a refurb,proper valve job new seals etc jmho

[Panos]

2 minutes ago, DAZ said:

I'd check what the compression would be with a 1216 kit before anything else if that is definitely in your future,what is advertised as  say 11:1 would become 12.5:1 with a dot head ,more if it's skimmed just something to bear in mind is there an issue with the stock head? I think if it's ok you maybe better using the std head and spending the cash on a refurb,proper valve job new seals etc jmho

I got the dot head because i would like to get yoshi camshafts someday and my shim camshafts where pitted , also the shim spitting stories .

Getting the shim head to screw and nut mod is a lot of work i've been told and getting the dot head was cheaper .

Proper valve job you mean bigger inlet valves (for dot head )?

 

[clivegto]

I'd be surprised if there's even 1/2cc difference between the damaged combustion chamber and the good ones once cleaned up.

[clivegto]

I have a flowed dot head on a 1052 motor and it goes like a screaming banchee 

[DAZ]

The dot head is favoured to put on a stock bottom end because the smaller 750 combustion chamber raises the compression ratio a, 1216 kit (usually listed as 11 or 12 :1 )would raise it too much with the smaller combustion chamber . By proper valve job o mean have the seats recut and valves faced and new genuine valve guide stem seals . In your existing head  .As for your cams could they not be reground to a new profile by Kent cams in UK or web cams in USA ? depends where you are based 

Edit : see you are in Greece so not sure what to advise...

Edited July 26, 2023 by DAZ
Added text

[DAZ]

29 minutes ago, clivegto said:

I have a flowed dot head on a 1052 motor and it goes like a screaming banchee 

The additional compression and better flow would wake it up for sure 

Edited July 26, 2023 by DAZ

[clivegto]

6 hours ago, DAZ said:

The additional compression and better flow would wake it up for sure 

It does to be sure  

@Panosif you want to use the dot head and 1216cc high comp pistons you could always have some material machined of the tops of the pistons, maybe a spacer plate on the bottom of the barrels. Best thing to do is a dry build to workout what compression ratios you have with the kit your going to fit after a little research.

[Joseph]

6 hours ago, DAZ said:

The additional compression and better flow would wake it up for sure 

So basically on a Bandit engine a dot head could be excellent 

[DAZ]

27 minutes ago, Joseph said:

So basically on a Bandit engine a dot head could be excellent 

Yes, both @clivegto and @fatblokeonbandit have had good results but if you go down the dot head route be sure to check carb clearance as the ports on the dot heads is "semi" downdraught  and consequently tilts the carbs upwards ,I'm not 100% sure but this maybe mitigated by using different intake rubbers as some are shorter than others check @Dezzaexcellent sticky on this subject..

Edit: and if you use the cams from the 750 you'll need to swap the cam wheels to bandit ones to suit your cam chain

Edited July 26, 2023 by DAZ
Addition

[Duckndive]

20 minutes ago, DAZ said:

Edit: and if you use the cams from the 750 you'll need to swap the cam wheels to bandit ones to suit your cam chain

if you use the Dot head on any 11?? oil boiler

you need to use the correct  11?? cam sprockets as the 750 has a different crank  / cam tooth count  ...

it's also worth dialling them in to get it spot on as valve piston interface can be close on some set up's 

Dry Build and sums are essential IMO  

[Panos]

I think my shim head GSXR uses the same camchain (plain chain not hyvo) as the dot head so i can use the dot head cam wheels but i will do cam dialing for sure .

I never dialed cams or calculate compression cc's , valve to piston , or squish measure on 4stroke and i'm looking forward in doing all of these this winter .

Carb rubbers im forced to use the shim head ones as i have BST 40mm so maybe thats an issue on the way .

Thank you all for the help guys i will pester you with questions again tomorrow as im getting of work now . Thanks again guys

[Duckndive]

55 minutes ago, Panos said:

I think my shim head GSXR uses the same camchain (plain chain not hyvo) as the dot head so i can use the dot head cam wheels but i will do cam dialing for sure .

you need to use the 1100 cam sprockets    not the 750 ones  

[Upshotknothole]

2 hours ago, Panos said:

I think my shim head GSXR uses the same camchain (plain chain not hyvo) as the dot head so i can use the dot head cam wheels but i will do cam dialing for sure .

I never dialed cams or calculate compression cc's , valve to piston , or squish measure on 4stroke and i'm looking forward in doing all of these this winter .

Carb rubbers im forced to use the shim head ones as i have BST 40mm so maybe thats an issue on the way .

Thank you all for the help guys i will pester you with questions again tomorrow as im getting of work now . Thanks again guys

As said above, you need the 1100 sprockets. 750s are one tooth off from 1100s on cam timing.

[clivegto]

Yes you need to swap the cam sprockets or it'll end in tears.

[fatblokeonbandit]

Ive fitted a few to B12's, it certainly livens them up, first one was years ago ( 2006??) , i got the whole 750 engine for £35 as the gearbox had gone big time. 

I knew nothing about degreeing cams so I juist stuck the cams and head on using B12 sprockets and timing, it worked spot on.....

I fitted it to the B12 below, had issues with the tap to carb top clearance due to steeper angle, tried spacing tank but it looked pants so fitted a pingle tap and all was well...

eventually had it Dyno'd, made 138 RWHP  and accelerated like a mad thing, the midrange was a lot less but what fun when revved....

Dyno man said it would have made a couple more donkeys, if some idiot hadnt cut the Yoshi can down!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

[Slabby11]

11 hours ago, Panos said:

Carb rubbers im forced to use the shim head ones as i have BST 40mm so maybe thats an issue on the way .

The 1100n rubbers will bolt up but will have some pretty big mismatches, easiest solution is dot head rubbers but fitting your BST40's will be a challenge or head work to match the 1100n rubbers. All-in-all i'd be tempted to find an 1100 screw adjuster head and rework it to suit want you want

[Panos]

1 hour ago, Slabby11 said:

The 1100n rubbers will bolt up but will have some pretty big mismatches, easiest solution is dot head rubbers but fitting your BST40's will be a challenge or head work to match the 1100n rubbers. All-in-all i'd be tempted to find an 1100 screw adjuster head and rework it to suit want you want

I was afraid of that , i guess i should have asked more before buying it but im still happy to own a dot head hehe .

I found gsx750f rubbers which are longer than gsxr ones according to @Dezzasticky about rubbers , should i snatch them ?

I would like to keep the airbox too which complicates things more i guess

[Panos]

2 hours ago, fatblokeonbandit said:

Ive fitted a few to B12's, it certainly livens them up, first one was years ago ( 2006??) , i got the whole 750 engine for £35 as the gearbox had gone big time. 

I knew nothing about degreeing cams so I juist stuck the cams and head on using B12 sprockets and timing, it worked spot on.....

I fitted it to the B12 below, had issues with the tap to carb top clearance due to steeper angle, tried spacing tank but it looked pants so fitted a pingle tap and all was well...

eventually had it Dyno'd, made 138 RWHP  and accelerated like a mad thing, the midrange was a lot less but what fun when revved....

Dyno man said it would have made a couple more donkeys, if some idiot hadnt cut the Yoshi can down!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

I paid a lot more than 35 for the head , you guys seem to find the best bargains but i am not complaining , still happy i bought it though even if it proves to be a pain in the ass to fit it .

That bandit looks super clean and wheelie happy , electrics and battery are hidden underseat ? Looks so tidy very nice 

[fatblokeonbandit]

It was a very long time ago, 17 years  we cant buy a head for 200 quid now!!!!

 

yes small batery and all leccy stuff under the very uncomfortable seat

 

it was  a good bike, really fun to ride another one i should have kept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jonny1bump]

Panos you won't be able to use airbox with dot head and your have to beat fuel tank in to get carbs to clear.

The dot head great on stock engine great for increasing cc the chamber fair bit smaller, the raised compression with down draft and port shape gives good gains but with 1216 its not going to work, there would not be alot left of the piston to get compression somewhere near, there are ways but you got look at big picture and look and what your compromising for those gains.

 

[Gsxrsam]

My 2p worth.

The m/n heads are the best flowing heads of the oil cooled family (according to Rogers flow bench).

So why not get it skimmed a bit and add the yosh stage 1 cams...

Much safer than a smaller chamber that a piston might kiss........(has happened)

Then you can bore barrels for bandit or busa pistons for a cheap big bore.....

 

[Upshotknothole]

13 hours ago, Gsxrsam said:

My 2p worth.

The m/n heads are the best flowing heads of the oil cooled family (according to Rogers flow bench).

So why not get it skimmed a bit and add the yosh stage 1 cams...

Much safer than a smaller chamber that a piston might kiss........(has happened)

Then you can bore barrels for bandit or busa pistons for a cheap big bore.....

 

Can you still get those cams? I was just looking at the Yosh website and the only 1100s they offer cams for are 89-90, and 93-97. I've got a 7/11 and a 750 that both have shim heads and I'd love to be able to put hotter cams in them. If it wasn't for the M already having the best flowing head, I'd have done a dot head swap to get access to better cams, going to stick it on a bandit engine instead.