gsx1428 streetable?

[boilerdude]

http://old-skool-suzuki.proboards.com/thread/5511/busa-pistons-efe-block

post 4 hin this old thread has a nice tidy summary of what to do. But with regards to heat and compression and displacement.. I wonder is that setup capable of being reliable for the street?

Edited September 25, 2017 by boilerdude

[Gixer1460]

23 minutes ago, boilerdude said:

http://old-skool-suzuki.proboards.com/thread/5511/busa-pistons-efe-block

post 4 hin this old thread has a nice tidy summary of what to do. But with regards to heat and compression and displacement.. I wonder is that setup capable of being reliable for the street?

Ask Duck and Dive - he's one of the few to try A/C big block on the street. My 1460 GSXR gets really hot even with extra finnage!

[boilerdude]

ya thats too much displacement for me to throw that much money and time at something and even have the slightest worry of getting stuck in traffic and ruin it all. 

Plus what fuel mileage does a 1428 get. 10 mpg?

[boilerdude]

Thats funny I just messaged duckn dive last night about fitting slingy rear wheel to efe. I'll just stick with that for now. When you say something like "ask this guy over here. he's one of the very few people who have even tried it..." well I suppose thats my answer fair enough.

[Paulm]

@Havoc isn't yours 1428 Tom?

[Havoc]

59 minutes ago, Paulm said:

@Havoc isn't yours 1428 Tom?

Did about 1000 miles 2 up around Belgium and Holland this summer, performed excellently generally although I will concede it didn't like traffic in town in the midday sun. I had issues with oil loss, and with the motor getting a little warm in traffic,  it did get a little smoky on occasion as the leaking oil burned off.

I didn't thrash it, much, as the wife was on the back. Returned an  average of about 29mpg,  higher on motorway stretches.

So in summary, yes Streetable, but not perfect....Bloody good fun though

[homer]

Big blocks without cooling passages between 1-2 and 3-4 cylinders tends to get hot when standing in traffic lights. My solution is to avoid them and enjoy the countryside. Streetable - yes, if you are aware the heat problem.

Fuel mileage... all that I have put in the tank have gone.

[Havoc]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Fuel mileage... all that I have put in the tank have gone.

Agree, the 28mpg mentioned above was the average for the trip, I've done 3 gallons in 40 miles  having fun locally  

[boilerdude]

but wait I thought we were talking about n/a build. just 1428 not boost. What is your compression ratio? Lets assume it's lowish somewhere at least under 10:1. As a matter of fact the efe stock compression ratio is nice and low like 9.5 if i remember correctly. What if I do 1428 all motor but keep a nice reasonable 9.5 or 10 compression ratio. relaxed and torquey. 

still too hot?

also the oil loss problem. was that unique to your bike like a leak somewhere or was it heat related and I should expect similar effects.

Edited September 25, 2017 by boilerdude

[Havoc]

CR 8.2:1, still fun but @10psi, absolutely  bonkers   

Edited September 25, 2017 by Havoc

[Havoc]

1 hour ago, boilerdude said:

also the oil loss problem. was that unique to your bike like a leak somewhere or was it heat related and I should expect similar effects.

Yes it was an issue specific to this engine, the 2 o rings on the front 2 central studs were rock hard and not sealing. Oil was escaping there then finding it's way all over the engine and pooling in the tray at the back of the block. The rocker gasket was also not fit for purpose, I needed it on the road and made one out of inappropriate material, proper one in there now. I've sorted it all now. Not associated with heat.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Havoc
poor english

[boilerdude]

so if 8.2:1 gets hot idling in traffic I could be sure a 9.5 or 10 compression 1428 would cook itself fast sitting and idling for any minutes. yes?

Edited September 25, 2017 by boilerdude

[Havoc]

It never felt 'snatchy' or misbehaved in a  way I would associate with over heating. But, if I lived in a city (I don't) in a hot part of the world, and knew I'd be spending a lot of time in traffic, I would go for something with more cooling fins that a billet block, it's always going to run hotter. I do think that people over state the issue though, it genuinely hasn't been the issue I was told it would be. There's a build thread in projects, 'AnarchEZ'.

 

[Gixer1460]

One of the big problems is getting a cylinder block to take the big liners - some have squeezed them into std GSX blocks but its a lot of metal to remove and the other option is aftermarket 'gorilla' blocks which have less fin area due to reduced numbers that are thicker than the originals ie. poor heat dissipation! Plus they tend to have little or no, through cylinder air paths - they are primarily designed for drag racing where rigidity / strength and short periods of use is primary function and cooling is secondary.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Gixer1460
Gramma

[Havoc]

The 1000 mile trip this summer was a long weekend, it's covered about 3500 miles since Feb, I regularly use it for the 30 mile round trip the work but I do consider it to be a bit daft. It's what I would call a Rolling Project, the block is an MTC big block with the issues Gixer1460 has described.

[boilerdude]

I was unaware the efe block needed changed out for this. I thought this was the recipe...

You need to shorten EFE cylinder block 2,5 mm to get zero deck with Busa pistons. Front cam chain guide needs to shorten 2,5mm from the top. Get Cometic 80mm MLS head gasket and open cylinder holes to 81mm (you need to bore rivets, deburr holes and wash between layers).Adjust cams 110/110. Tune carbs and enjoy.

Read more: http://old-skool-suzuki.proboards.com/thread/5511/busa-pistons-efe-block#ixzz4tjRsZ9mP

anybody know off hand where this would leave the compression^^^?

Edited September 25, 2017 by boilerdude

[boilerdude]

I get the idea that is just one dude saying a thing on the internet. But it sounds like he knows what he's doing. but where does that leave the compression I wonder. And how survivable (with efe block and fins)

Edited September 25, 2017 by boilerdude

[Arttu]

If we are talking about using Busa pistons in EFE engine that will result about 1360cc not 1428cc. @Blower1 is the guy to contact about this since he has done it a couple of times if I recall correctly.

Like described above he has done this by using larger sleeves on stock EFE block. Benefit of this approach is still having air passages between the cylinders and original size cooling fins. So this reduces heat problems compared to aftermarket big blocks. On downside there are quite many small details to sort out to get everything right. Like getting deck height and compression ratio correct, sealing the sleeves on the block etc.

[boilerdude]

well the deck height seems to be figured out already. take off 2.5 mm supposedly. wonder where that does leave the compression though? 

[Blower1]

The compression is approximately 9.7  with busa pistons and zero deck height by using Cometic 1.1mm thick MLS head gasket.

 

[boilerdude]

see that sounds reasonable. worthy of consideration for dependable street build. And then folks are also saying optimally I should have the bottom end re-spec'd as well with tighter tolerances. And then address the weak points of the clutch. That should probably be the first step. 

[Havoc]

You want longevity and usability Gary Hudson's 1216 motor is a really good example..sit sweet in an EF.

4 or 5 years in, went to Portugal and back this summer (3000 miles) does loads of rallys, awesome and reliable.  

Not sure that's the recommendation to make in this part of the forum though...

Edited September 26, 2017 by Havoc
Forgot where I was...

[boilerdude]

well it's still an air cooled frame we're talking about doing this with.

Edited September 26, 2017 by boilerdude

[Gammaboy]

The Bandit liners/Busa slugs is pretty reliable once you get thee gaskets sorted - Bloke I know uses his alot, another bloke won a burnout comp with it and it didn't break a sweat.

[Duckndive]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 8:57 AM, Gixer1460 said:

Ask DuckandDive - he's one of the few to try A/C big block on the street. My 1460 GSXR gets really hot even with extra finnage!

Yeap I ran this on the Street..

Most of the issues have already been pointed out ...it was fine when on the move on open roads .but as soon as you get stuck in traffic "even filtering thru it" the temp goes of the Richter scale .. ."lack of any air flow and a solid block" ......it also used to ooooze heat once you parked up....and needed to be left for 30min before starting again

 on the plus side it was a real hoot to ride....and worth the agro......would I do it again 50 / 50 .....

Tom "Havoc" has proved a big block with a turbo can be a daily ride and euro tourer...you just have to be prepared to suffer some pain for the huge grin factor it give

I am in the process of doing a 1397 in a re-linered stock block that should be less agro on the road....

 

PS on the subject of other pistons you can do a 1260 in a stock EFE block using GSXR 1100 L . M piston's and decking the block about 2 mm

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Duckndive