Saunders frame kit

[gray]

About 2.5 years I bought a frame advertised on Fleabay. Tubular steel, bit like a Harris magnum 2 (?)  Am making slow progress with it.

Story was that Grant Saunders was a New Zealander , came over here to learn frame building at Harris then branched out on his own with  a shop in the Durham area. He then found God , went back to NZ and was involved with the Britten WSB team.

He made  3 frame kits apparently - 1 was for a Jota and was tested by Bike magazine about 1983 . Mine apparently had a GSX1100 motor in it  and  the frame was then modified for fitting a turbocharger. Other than that I know little. Apparently  it was riding about the Borders with a GSX750 engine in it latterly.

I'll add more info and  some photos tomorrow. 

Any further info gratefully received

Gray

[DAZ]

Never cease to be amazed at what turns up ..... I sometimes wonder what treasures lay hidden in suburban garages and sheds 

[stockcar]

yes he had a place not far from here and know a couple of guy's who had a bit to do with them.......

 

thought there was more than 3x but might be wrong - was never many regardless

[Guest]

It's all vague memory, but I seem to recall that the Laverda was a one off commission and there were also three Suzuki frames.

[gray]

came with a bespoke tank from the Tank Shop in Dumfries

  

and it came with the Saunders side panel/ tail unit and a nose fairing

Edited March 22, 2024 by Wee Man

[DAZ]

Looks great, that tank is a class creation ,do you have any ideas on how you'll build it ? Restomod utilizing the fairing and seat unit with more modern running gear , or a period correct style build ? Or nekid street fighter stylee ...

[clivegto]

Nice looking thing. Very similar to the Harris Magnum 2 frame and swinging arm. 

[Ragerover]

He lived next to me 

clever f@ker

tried to give me a lesson in frame geometry but he was too clever for me

spent a bit of time with him 

used to go up Saturday after the Hill or call on an evening 

quietly spoken genius

he was a bit of a bible basher when we first met but never pushed it( maybe he could see I was a lost cause)

well into it later on

he made quite a few frames ( more than 3 )

here’s the man himself in a Lewis leathers advert

And another of his projects 

 

weirdly says designed by Jacob Saunders 

[BillyR]

I rode one in my journo days, might of been a gsx11. Being some time in the 80's i cant remember too much about it other than id handled as good as any Harris/spondon/martin etc.. id ridden.

[Dezza]

Weren't the frames marketed as 'Saunders and Lewis?' Who was Lewis I wonder?

[Ragerover]

Sanders and Lewis were a London based company 

who made stuff for Kettles 

[Wagola]

19 minutes ago, Ragerover said:

Sanders and Lewis were a London based company 

who made stuff for Kettles 

I thought that was De Longhi ??

[Dezza]

6 hours ago, Wagola said:

I thought that was De Longhi ??

No, it was his best mate: Russell Hobbs

[gray]

As you can see, the fibreglass tailpiece I have is the same as the Jota's.

I've been in email contact with him ( Initially he was Grant Saunders, but now goes by Jacob) and he thinks he  only did 3 frames. I sent him a photo of my frame number ( which has a 7 on the end) and he said he definitely didn't do 7. Which was odd. 

The swingarm was damaged - looks like the chain jumped the sprocket, and got jammed between sprocket and arm and bent / dented it and cracked the braze.  

I had made a list of what I wanted from a donor bike, and picked one up - the Triumph Daytona 900 would give me good wheels for modern rubber, discs, 4 pot Nissans, multi adjustable forks, yokes would fit and swingarm was the right width ( so no issues making up spacers ) and the Saunders swingarm pivot  bolt was the same diameter as the Triumph  one.  But the Saunders swingarm mounts its shock like an LC350 so I needed to get a mounting made - I chopped a GSX-R 750 K3  up to get its brace and a local fit that does race bike stuff welded it up for me. I'll try and add a photo.

The Triumph engine wouldn't fit ( clutch cover sticks out too much) so I sold  all the Triumph stuff I didn't need and started looking for an engine/ carbs/ loom/ electrics etc  .

[gray]

frame and swingarm set up on the bench with a piece of wood that I calculate will give me a clean chain run, once sag has occurred. 

Edited April 4, 2024 by Wee Man

[gray]

I had tried a Z1000M ( air-cooled ) engine in it that I had lying about but the rear edges of the cylinder head fins  were hitting the  frame rails  so that was moved on. I knew I would need a carb'd engine as I didn't want to cut a hole in that nice tank to fit a fuel pump for fuel injection. Had to be side draft carbs  not down  draft, and that's how I arrived at the next part of the jigsaw - a donor  Mk 1 Bandit , picked up  complete and running,  and ridden home 4 hrs before the MOT ran out.

The engine fits but there are marks on the bores where the rings have sat a long time. The motor is stripped and a hollow shell engine bolted together so its easier to  move about , ready to  be taken to get brackets made up to fit it in the frame.

the Triumph forks weren't slid fully up the yokes to it looks too high at the front on this photo. 

.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Wee Man
Upside doon

[gray]

So today's job was to remove the endurance racing dual quick fillers, and show the removed filler plate to a local  engineering firm who say they can make up a plain plate to mount on the tank, so I can fit a conventional flush-fit fuel cap  that locks. Should be no problem that say .

I'll sell on the dual quick fillers - John at The Tank Shop said they were worth about £400.

Fuel tap is going to be a Z1R one which fits onto the screw fitting on the tank base, and has a single outlet for the Bandit carbs. I had one lying about fortunately. I've sourced new filters for it from an Eblag dealer  "Madmopeds" who was very helpful. 

 

 

[Swirl]

If you search Saunders on here, I'm sure that's the same kit I tried to buy, was it from Scotland, had a deal done with the fella, never answered messages very rarely answered the phone, then he said it was gone

Edited April 26, 2024 by Swirl

[Guest]

On 3/22/2024 at 8:18 PM, gray said:

came with a bespoke tank from the Tank Shop in Dumfries

  

and it came with the Saunders side panel/ tail unit and a nose fairing

Is the saunders fairing a bit like an Endurance one with one headlight. Not sen one of these frames before so build is going to be interesting to follow

[Guest dogsbody]

Thought you might be interested.... I found Jacob on fb the other day, and he sent me a nice reply! I've been trying to get a positive i.d. on my bike. I'd always belived it to be a Harris but I had suggestions it may be a Saunders. He confirmed it's not!

He's alive and well and living in NZ. No longer has any involvement in the bike world, sadly.

He built 4 frames, 2x GS, 1x Laverda, 1x GSX. One was stolen many years ago and never seen again. 

[Toecutter]

Someone has all the frame jigs and bodywork grp moulds for the Saunders stuff on that site at the moment...

[gray]

The guy I bought the frame from has the moulds for the fairings, the jigs for the frame and engineering notes to go with them.

Slow slow progress since the last post

Local Engineering firm  Dunblane Light Engineering  laser cut some brackets  for the Bandit 12 engine, so it sits in the frame. I had supplied templates in aluminium for them to scan 

Local car engineer honed the damaged/ rusty bores and pronounced them OK and I had acquired a set of 4 low mileage pistons and rings that give good ring gaps/ clearances etc

Alternative tank filler, more suitable for everyday use  now in situ.

Gearbox input shaft  had wear on 2nd 3rd 4th input gears so replaced with better 2nd hand gears or new ones from local Suzuki shop in Falkirk.

The next big job was the wiring loom.

Because the battery  in now in the tailpiece,  longer positive and negative  earth leads made re-using  the original fittings.

Then deciding where the  fusebox/ ignition black box/  relays etc would go and stringing the  wires  between then  , using thinwall cable and waterproof Superseal connectors where possible. Making sub looms for the tailpiece, finding suitable indicators,  number plate  light and tail light. Tail light was difficult because of  the tailpiece shape - had a Mk 1 Transit has done the job(!)

 

 

[gray]

I liked the  line of the tank, sloping from front to back. I wasn't  impressed with the original fairing, so I began thinking about what nose fairing would complement the tank's shape and came up with the GSX1100/750 EF one , so picked one up from Eblag, with its frame  and headlight. I repaired the cracks in the fairing and  got a local  welder to space out the brackets  so it lined up nicely with the  tank . Then I made a front sub-loom for indicators/ horns/ headlight so  the whole front fairing can come off by loosening 2 bolts, undoing 2 bolts and disconnecting 1 block connector 

I'll try  and submit some up to date photosthis is the interior of the tailpiece with its sub loom

[gray]

I had always planned to use a Katana clocks set, partly cos  they're cool  and partly cos I planned to get the the clock's face altered to say G S  for Grant Saunders, using the needles as part  of each letter . I sourced  them last week , stripped them today ,  plastic welded the  gouges in the cover and removed its wiring loom and tried to identify  what wire was equivalent to  the Bandit clocks' wiring. 

Question to you all - in the back of the Katana speedo there are 2 spade connectors , one with a red and 1 with a pink wire  - what are they for?  I wondered if they are for  some kind of automatic  indicator/ cancelling system sensor fed by the speedo.

[Gammaboy]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:39 PM, Dezza said:

Weren't the frames marketed as 'Saunders and Lewis?' Who was Lewis I wonder?

The GT750s were Sanders and Lewis, Saxon built the frames, which were a copy of a Bakker TR750 frame. Weirdly, that's the demo Sanders and Lewis GT750 in the Lewis Leathers ad in Ragerover's post... 

Edited March 10 by Gammaboy