GSXR1100 vs GSF1200

[Qwik]

So with having a motor fail on Sunday I’m looking at a replacement while I do my big bore build.  Am I going to have a lot lower numbers on the GSXR 1100 Lump vs a Bandit 1200?  It’s in a sidecar rig so higher torque is a good thing

[Joseph]

45 hp and 30 Nm less on a Bandit, peak torque and power is 1000-1500 lower down on the 1200 though 

[Upshotknothole]

Bandit engines are typically cheaper and easier to find. I'd stick with the bandit, and as I assume this will be a winter project, and you already ordered some extra parts for your blown engine, do a 1216 kit. You're in the states, so Holeshot parts will be easy to get, and there's APE for anything else. Maybe some mild cams on top of the big bore to wake it up a little, but nothing crazy to help keep all that mid range power that you're after for the side hack.

[DAZ]

28 minutes ago, Upshotknothole said:

Bandit engines are typically cheaper and easier to find. I'd stick with the bandit, and as I assume this will be a winter project, and you already ordered some extra parts for your blown engine, do a 1216 kit. You're in the states, so Holeshot parts will be easy to get, and there's APE for anything else. Maybe some mild cams on top of the big bore to wake it up a little, but nothing crazy to help keep all that mid range power that you're after for the side hack.

Plus you can always adjust the gearing if needed , some seem to think the gsx1100f was the best all round oil cooled lump 

[Dezza]

Outfits (at least racing ones) absolutely kill their engines so maybe go reliability and cost-effective replacement/rebuilds over outright power. I agree with Daz on the powerscreen lump as suitable.

[Duckndive]

13 minutes ago, Dezza said:

Outfits (at least racing ones) absolutely kill their engines so maybe go reliability and cost-effective replacement/rebuilds over outright power. I agree with Daz on the powerscreen lump as suitable.

The Motor of choice used to be the water boiler engine until they changed the rules 

But unless you are buying a known engine with provenance these days every thing GSXR 1100 is well over 20 years old or more 

[Qwik]

I’ve seen a few lower miles 1100 engines for sale.  But I do agree with the fact that even my Bandit engine is 18yrs old. 

[Upshotknothole]

They keep getting brought up in the threads here, so definitely keep an eye out for a GSX1100F(power screen or in the states "katana", but they weren't really a katana) engine or complete bike if you can find one for a good price. They were the best sport touring engine out of all the oil cooled lumps. Otherwise bandit engines as they're newer and usually don't get hammered on quite as hard as the GSXRs.

[wraith]

Don't know about bandit engines not being hammered as much as gsxr engines, the b12 was the bike to Streetfighter and Wheely everywhere at one point because they where easier to find and cheeper then a gsxr1100 MK1 more than the MK2. 

[Upshotknothole]

36 minutes ago, wraith said:

Don't know about bandit engines not being hammered as much as gsxr engines, the b12 was the bike to Streetfighter and Wheely everywhere at one point because they where easier to find and cheeper then a gsxr1100 MK1 more than the MK2. 

Here in the states, at least on the west coast where I’ve always lived, the bandits were more of an old man/touring bike, and everything with a full fairing got ridden into the ground. Most people here still think street fighters are crashed sports bikes that you didn’t have the money to repair. If you wanted to look cool when you pulled up to the coffee shop, you needed something with a fairing, and ideally a matching jacket and helmet. The US also doesn’t give a damn if you’re 16 and want to buy a liter bike or a busa for your first motorcycle to learn on, helps keep the used sports bike parts cheap. 

The other thing that we don’t have here is anything even close to MOT. Want to register a motorcycle? All you need to do is let them verify the VIN and it should have lights on it, but they don’t give a damn about making sure it’s safe for the road…and I’ve seen so many bikes over the years that should not have been on the road. So that sports bike that won’t pass MOT over there and gets sold off as a project, will get ridden for a few more years here until it’s really destroyed. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Upshotknothole
Additional info

[TonyGee]

10 minutes ago, Upshotknothole said:

The US also doesn’t give a damn if you’re 16 and want to buy a liter bike or a busa for your first motorcycle to learn on, helps keep the used sports bike parts cheap. 

helps with human body parts as well 

[wraith]

25 minutes ago, Upshotknothole said:

Here in the states, at least on the west coast where I’ve always lived, the bandits were more of an old man/touring bike, and everything with a full fairing got ridden into the ground. Most people here still think street fighters are crashed sports bikes that you didn’t have the money to repair. If you wanted to look cool when you pulled up to the coffee shop, you needed something with a fairing, and ideally a matching jacket and helmet. The US also doesn’t give a damn if you’re 16 and want to buy a liter bike or a busa for your first motorcycle to learn on, helps keep the used sports bike parts cheap. 

The other thing that we don’t have here is anything even close to MOT. Want to register a motorcycle? All you need to do is let them verify the VIN and it should have lights on it, but they don’t give a damn about making sure it’s safe for the road…and I’ve seen so many bikes over the years that should not have been on the road. So that sports bike that won’t pass MOT over there and gets sold off as a project, will get ridden for a few more years here until it’s really destroyed. 

Yes at one point when Streetfighter's where getting very popular over here a lot of them was just sport bikes with twin spots and no fairing and it all got very very boring, they should of called them road rash bikes not Streetfighter's  but I used to go to a popular bike meet and that got boring as all the bikes where the same and the only way you could tell them apart was from the number plates. 

[TonyGee]

here's one of them boring streetfighters with twin headlights I built earlier  

 

[colinworth79]

There are some differences between bandit 12 and gsxr motor mainly cams,  pistons and clutch . I would personally go with bandit 12 as the crankcaese are slightly different around the gearbox output bearing allowing a wider bearing to be fitted. If your going big bore your going to change to higher comp pistons anyway . 

[wraith]

1 hour ago, TonyGee said:

here's one of them boring streetfighters with twin headlights I built earlier  

 

That's a bit more than no fairing and twin spots  that I would call a Streetfighter other than a standard bike with no fairing 

[Qwik]

6 minutes ago, colinworth79 said:

There are some differences between bandit 12 and gsxr motor mainly cams,  pistons and clutch . I would personally go with bandit 12 as the crankcaese are slightly different around the gearbox output bearing allowing a wider bearing to be fitted. If your going big bore your going to change to higher comp pistons anyway . 

The Holeshot kit is 10.8-1 (stock is 9.5-1) so I’m assuming 91octane vs the 87 they call for now. I run nonethanol that only comes in 91 octane. So that’s a non-issue anyway. 

[Upshotknothole]

4 hours ago, Qwik said:

The Holeshot kit is 10.8-1 (stock is 9.5-1) so I’m assuming 91octane vs the 87 they call for now. I run nonethanol that only comes in 91 octane. So that’s a non-issue anyway. 

It'll be fine with that gas. Are you running a stock clutch with your setup?

[Qwik]

1 hour ago, Upshotknothole said:

It'll be fine with that gas. Are you running a stock clutch with your setup?

At the moment I am. But that may have to be upgraded. At least a set of heavier springs and i’m thinking about upgrading both (clutch and brake)master cylinders to Brembos 

[Upshotknothole]

6 minutes ago, Qwik said:

At the moment I am. But that may have to be upgraded. At least a set of heavier springs and i’m thinking about upgrading both (clutch and brake)master cylinders to Brembos 

You can run heavier springs, but stick with OEM frictions and steels. None of the aftermarket clutches compare to OEM. Brembo master with braided lines is always a nice upgrade for the brakes.

For the clutch, search on here, there's one specific Brembo M/C that works best with the oil cooled clutches, but I can never remember which one it is.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Upshotknothole
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