GSXR Earls Oil lines

[Bobby]

Hello all, Wondering if someone can help me here, I bought these second hand earls oil lines from the online auction site sometime last year and came to fit them today, When purchased they were listed for the 1200 bandit and gsxr 1100. I have an 1052 slabby.  So when I attempted to fit them the right hose is approx an inch too short and the left has approx an inch too much- (I did swap them the other way round to check and there way off like that). Also note the size of the oil feed ports, they are smaller than the original size.  Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Thanks Bobby

Edited January 10, 2021 by Bobby

[Dezza]

Looks like the lines are arse about face to me: when on the bike the shorter hose should be on the right and the longer one to the left. The hoses will simply unscrew so loosen them all, fit to bike, then tighten everything up the right way round. Or remove the bits thsat go onto the head and the Y piece, fit to the engine, then fit the hoses. Dunno about the different id of the hose.

[TonyGee]

i agree with Dezza 

[R1guy]

[Bobby]

39 minutes ago, Dezza said:

Looks like the lines are arse about face to me: when on the bike the shorter hose should be on the right and the longer one to the left. The hoses will simply unscrew so loosen them all, fit to bike, then tighten everything up the right way round. Or remove the bits thsat go onto the head and the Y piece, fit to the engine, then fit the hoses. Dunno about the different id of the hose.

yes the fixings are all loose and when the bottom is tightened to the casing there is no way for the shorter one to reach the right port. What is your views on the size of the oil ways compared to stock ones? 

[Bobby]

Just now, Bobby said:

yes the fixings are all loose and when the bottom is tightened to the casing there is no way for the shorter one to reach the right port. What is your views on the size of the oil ways compared to stock ones? 

Just noticed that you said you not sure about the bore size sorry

[Bobby]

26 minutes ago, R1guy said:

That oil hose kit looks a nice set up, which one is that? 

[R1guy]

2 hours ago, Bobby said:

That oil hose kit looks a nice set up, which one is that? 

Torques

[R1guy]

3 hours ago, Bobby said:

Hello all, Wondering if someone can help me here, I bought these second hand earls oil lines from the online auction site sometime last year and came to fit them today, When purchased they were listed for the 1200 bandit and gsxr 1100. I have an 1052 slabby.  So when I attempted to fit them the right hose is approx an inch too short and the left has approx an inch too much- (I did swap them the other way round to check and there way off like that). Also note the size of the oil feed ports, they are smaller than the original size.  Can anyone shed any light on this for me? Thanks Bobby

 

 

Looking at it, I think your set-up there has been used as part of a head cooler set up , rather than a basic head oil feed.

looks like the “y” piece would have been feeding the “in” on a cooler, hence why it doesn’t fit where you are trying to use it.

 

[Dezza]

 The set up could originally have been for a 750 slingshot which has a shorter block than an 1100 or a 1200. Hence, the pipes are too short when fitting to a bigger engine.

I would unscrew the hoses , fit the case take off and the cam cover fittings, and then see if the pipes go on. If not, all you need to make it work would be to buy some correct size hose and cut it to fit so you have 2 hoses of the correct length. Making your own oil cooler pipes is not difficult. Even I can do it.

[MeanBean49]

Looks to me like a 750 setup, slightly shorter hoses, you can get a meter of new hose for about £10, cut to size you need.

Regarding bore size looks to me like its -6 stuff, most people seem to go for that for some reason. Personally ive always gone with -8 for mine to mirror stock. In reality probably makes very little difference, small bore hose will put a bit more load on the pump but pressure in the hoses is less. Big hoses means less load on pump but higher pressure in the hose.

[Gixer1460]

14 minutes ago, MeanBean49 said:

small bore hose will put a bit more load on the pump but pressure in the hoses is less. Big hoses means less load on pump but higher pressure in the hose.

Not gonna argue with you but that's backwards! Oil cooling is based on a lower pressure system that shifts bulk volume and simple maths says you get bigger volume through a larger pipe at a given pressure (pump output) over the same time period. The in-pipe pressures can only increase / decrease with varying the restriction at outlet (which in this case is fixed!)

[MeanBean49]

10 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

Not gonna argue with you but that's backwards! Oil cooling is based on a lower pressure system that shifts bulk volume and simple maths says you get bigger volume through a larger pipe at a given pressure (pump output) over the same time period. The in-pipe pressures can only increase / decrease with varying the restriction at outlet (which in this case is fixed!)

I suggest you do some research into pressure within a pipe vs csa.

Same volume (flow) equals higher pressure in the pipe the bigger the bore of the pipe

Thats why fuel injection systems use as small bore pipe as possible. Pressures in the pipes would be far too high otherwise

Edited January 11, 2021 by MeanBean49

[Bobby]

53 minutes ago, MeanBean49 said:

Looks to me like a 750 setup, slightly shorter hoses, you can get a meter of new hose for about £10, cut to size you need.

Regarding bore size looks to me like its -6 stuff, most people seem to go for that for some reason. Personally I've always gone with -8 for mine to mirror stock. In reality probably makes very little difference, small bore hose will put a bit more load on the pump but pressure in the hoses is less. Big hoses means less load on pump but higher pressure in the hose.

Thanks for that, Do you think that I will be ok using these with the smaller oil ways? my bike is turbo so I just need to make sure that I am going to be ok using it.

[dupersunc]

Fluid dynamics 101. 

For a given flow rate, reduce pipe cross section, you increase pressure.

So if you reduce the bore size you either increase pressure or reduce flow.

In this case we aren't talking huge pressures, thepump will maintain the flow needed, but it will put a little more drag on the pump, so parasitic losses would be higher and slightly higher temps generated.

Real world, will you notice a difference? Probably not.

Edited January 11, 2021 by dupersunc

[MeanBean49]

7 minutes ago, dupersunc said:

Fluid dynamics 101. 

For a given flow rate, reduce pipe cross section, you increase pressure.

So if you reduce the bore size you either increase pressure or reduce flow.

In this case we aren't talking huge pressures, thepump will maintain the flow needed, but it will put a little more drag on the pump, so parasitic losses would be higher and slightly higher temps generated.

Real world, will you notice a difference? Probably not.

Yep, probably notice more in the wallet, bit cheaper to buy -6 lol

[MeanBean49]

16 minutes ago, Bobby said:

Thanks for that, Do you think that I will be ok using these with the smaller oil ways? my bike is turbo so I just need to make sure that I am going to be ok using it.

Yeah should be fine, the LP system is seperate from the HP so wont have any bearing on the crank/cam system that you feed your turbo from

[Dezza]

Most use -6 for these pipes as you can only get the Torques fittings in this size. The Earls parts cost a fortune by comparison and I think are (were) available in either -6 or -8 but I may be wrong here.

Yes, smaller pipes increase fluid pressure. This is the reason why high blood pressure is an indicator of clogged arteries and an early sign of heart problems.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Dezza

[Bobby]

Update to this- I have fitted these to a 750 motor that I have and looks to be a decent fit, they don’t fit the 1100. The oil ways seem more suited as they appear smaller on the 750 

I will sell this now as it won’t fit my 1100

[Fazz711]

Why not just buy and fit new hose? 

[Bobby]

10 hours ago, Fazz711 said:

Why not just buy and fit new hose? 

I want to keep the oil ways the same size as oem 

[Bobby]

In fact I will just make these fit like you guys say. Fair play 

[MarsN]

Old thread, I know, but I have to chime in, in case someone reads this....

I'm in the process of adding an auxillary head cooler to my '91 1216 so I've been reading and measuring...

There is an important hose size distinction to realize when plumbing the head cooler lines.

People are correct when they state that the cylinder head valve cover lines are AN6. however, those lines have been split into TWO AN6 lines from ONE AN8 line coming out of the crankcase(the 'Y'). Using the approximate i.d. of AN6 vs AN8 lines, the area/volume of one AN8 line is very close to the same as two AN6 lines.

Eg. area of AN6 id of 8mm = 50 square mm's.   area of AN8 id of 11mm = 95 square mm's.  So you can see that splitting one AN8 line into two AN6 lines keeps the volume close to the same.

This means in order to preserve the same volume and pressure of the oem system(probably important), the lines running to and from an auxillary cooler need to be AN8. The spit into two AN6 lines keeps the volume/pressure the same because there are TWO lines. If running AN6 lines for ALL hoses connecting an auxillary oil cooler to the head, you will be greatly reducing the oil volume being supplied. The pressure will be higher for sure, but will it be enough higher to maintain the same oil volume intended in the design? My guess would be no.  Much better to stick with AN8 lines to and from the oil cooler, and only use AN6 after splitting into two lines going back into the head valve-cover. 

 

One other note. When measuring the id of the oem fittings going into the valve cover, they are ~ 9.6mm. however, the opening in the valve cover itself is only ~8mm. 

The diameter of the opening coming out of the crankcase(the single side of the 'Y') is ~11mm.

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by MarsN

[JoeHugin]

Hey. New to the forum.

Is the bracket/connector in the crank case and the head something "off the shelf", or are those custom made?

[davecara]

You'll find them on the Torques Eblag shop