Fast road/track 1200cc+ oil boiler . What to start with

[dupersunc]

I want to put together a fast road/ track engine for one of my 7/11 projects.  I currently have an 1100l motor, 1200 bandit lump, and a 750k motor to use as a base and for parts, plus a set of Kent Suz7 cams. I'll purchase after market pistons, and run 38mm carbs from a 750m initially, and a Micron 4-2-1 exhaust system.

So my questions are what would be the best combination of parts to use from my stash?  How big can I go reliably on the over bore? 1216 1277?

I'm looking for top end power, don't mind sacrificing a bit of mid range., I'm used to modern peaky il4s.   Don't want to go to the expense of larger valves, but I'm happy to do a bit of head work and clean up the valve throats and combustion cambers, dial in cams etc. etc.

All wisdom from the oldskoolsuzuki crew great full received.

Duncan. 

 

[McLean Racing]

1216 is a good all round package. Me personally id use the 1100 motor but use the bandit block as the liners are a little thicker so leaves a bit more meat on them once bored out. Theres a few little bits u can do to make a little more peak power etc but anywere between 150 & 160hp is a good figure depending on compression etc. U can make more power but then u start needing to run race fuels etc to lower the chance of detonation

[dupersunc]

Cheers for that. Is the 1100l head and bottom end much better than the Bandit

What sort of c.r. should I be aiming for, and what squish?

[Rossco(Iceman Josros)]

While on the subject what is a quick way to increase capacity on the Slabby 1052 engine ? Piston swap from another model??? Which one have the same pin diameter ??

sorry for the hijack ;)

[Paulm]

What about putting the 750k head on the bandit lump? Supposed to give good power gains I believe

[Rossco(Iceman Josros)]

FatBloke did that a few years ago not sure what gains he got but he was happy with it as I recall

[dupersunc]

What about putting the 750k head on the bandit lump? Supposed to give good power gains I believe

Yes it gives good gains over a standard Bandit1200, mostly from the higher compression I believe, and this was my original plan.  But would that give me a better base to build on than the 1100l motor?

[markfoggy]

I'm with Dunc on this one, same end spec, similar thoughts on what I can achieve without sending most of it away to a specialist.

I'm about 12 months behind him though, so question is, if you've not even got a lump yet, what's the prefered starting point?

[McLean Racing]

The 750k head would be a good head. But thats  the only thing worth taking off that motor. So unless u want to butcher 3 motors to build 1, then id probably leave the 750 motor intact. I would still start with the 1100 motor due to the roller cam chain, better cams and better clutch

 

[Fula28]

Agree with that I have done most of the above swaps! 1052 bottom end with b12 cylinders on opened 1052 cases. 750 dot head skimmed by 0.005" upperton flow job stg 2 yoshimura cams. Made 147bhp. 86lbs torque + With micron gsxr 1000 headers ! 

Just get swapping Frankenstein motors are awesome fun. 

[Gixer1460]

Agree with that I have done most of the above swaps! 1052 bottom end with b12 cylinders on opened 1052 cases. 750 dot head skimmed by 0.005" upperton flow job stg 2 yoshimura cams. Made 147bhp. 86lbs torque + With micron gsxr 1000 headers ! 

Just get swapping Frankenstein motors are awesome fun. 

You did all that for 3hp more than this - 1186cc, std M head and cams, CV carbs and a DIY 4-2-1 pipe.

[Fula28]

Yea I did afraid  was cheap to do had lots time no kids! How things have changed.  Lol.

[McLean Racing]

You did all that for 3hp more than this - 1186cc, std M head and cams, CV carbs and a DIY 4-2-1 pipe.

 

I had the same result a few years back, 1216 kit, stock 11m head and cams, termignoni exhaust, 40cv's with filters. Made 147bhp and 98ft/lb torque. Then i got the head done and it turn it into a whole different animal lol 

[clivegto]

I have a 1052 motor with a flowed dot head and it is a fast motor never had it on a dyno yet. As John says its a whole different animal even though this one is still a standard 1052cc bore.

Edited August 29, 2015 by clivegto

[dupersunc]

Just a bump to see if anyone else has some wisdom on this. I'm getting close to starting on this project.

What sort of compression ratio should I be looking to achieve if I'm running on 98, with a Dyna 2000?

[Oilyspanner]

You did all that for 3hp more than this - 1186cc, std M head and cams, CV carbs and a DIY 4-2-1 pipe.

Beautiful curve G1460, I'm a big fan of the 1100 M/N head, if you're not planning to add hairy cams of course - they flow well and are designed to work with the  big 40mm cv carbs  - of course it could be your DIY exhaust !

I forgot to add - the oiler motors are better at producing torque than power at very high revs - as has been said 150 - 160 comes easy enough with an 1100 with some work, the beauty is the instant pick-up from almost any revs.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Oilyspannerlyspanner
forgot 'stuff'

[markfoggy]

Junk the Dyna Ignition. You want one of these.

http://www.classic-raceshop.com/electronics/elektronik-sachse-digital-ignition-zdg3?

Absoluteley idiot proof and a fine bit of kit. The only way that P1 have found an issue is to crash fook out of it.

Set engine to TDC, rotate back plate until an LED comes on, do up backing plate screws. Russell bought an all singing and dancing Snap On Strobe light to see if we could beat the build or find any advantage, he's since sold it!

Don't be foxed by the multiple ignition curves, it's got 9 built in that are switchable by setting a dipper switch, but they cover a wide range of different types of engine, so not exactly programmable. I think curve 8 is the one we're using, should be some stuff on their web-site, though it may be out of date. Guy who originally built the company died, new owners, but I believe they're enthusiastic and could help with enquiries.

[dupersunc]

Fuck me, do you think I'm made of money Mark?

The Dyna Ignition was acquired  as part of another deal, so owes me less than bugger all. I'll save that link for future though. 

[Gixer1460]

Beautiful curve G1460, I'm a big fan of the 1100 M/N head, if you're not planning to add hairy cams of course - they flow well and are designed to work with the  big 40mm cv carbs  - of course it could be your DIY exhaust !

Agreed, M head is a good 'un but this was using 36mm CV's - a nicer carb to work with. The exhaust was built 'to the bike' and did have longer primaries than usual - maybe a 1/3rd longer - and I think that was what was responsible for the torque! I should have tried it on my 1460 - that would have been a hoot!

[fatblokeonbandit]

Being a cheapskate ive done things the least expensive way, ive done 2 b12's with 750 Dot heads and cams, race cans and pod filters  and both gave 135ish rwhp and rev like a bastard compared to the standard 1200. cheap as chips as I got a complete gsxr  750 k engine with shagged gearbox for £50

 

But My heron B12 has 1216 J and E high comp pistonks, Mr uppertons head, Kent cams, full Akropovic system and 36mm mukkey roonies all set up and did 149.5 rwhp last time on the dyno, has been totally reliable fro the last 5 years. And the clutch is fine, when I raced my1200  years ago I had a EBC race clutch that lasted 3 laps of practice and full Barnett race one that actually lasted one meeting!!!!  On the advice of someon on here who drag raced one,   I fitted genuine Suzuki steels and fibers with one barmett H/D spring and its been in there ever since, I had it out 3 years ago to measure it all and it was spot on..............

[McLean Racing]

cant beat the stock suzuki clutches