Teapot frame stiffness

[DAZ]

Whilst following @wraith hellcat build it came to light about the braces across the frame and this set me to wondering if the teapot frames are noticeably stiffer than a bandit frame for track day use, see @DezzaOSS race series in general chat, or even fast road use I know @fatblokeonbanditbuilt one for track use as did @teapot I know everyone will say get a gsxr, but this is just a question that popped to mind,I did own a 'boons arse 600 once as a hack for a short while but never really touched it anyway opinions / abuse welcome  pics from @Omegasteve  and @teapothope that's ok ?

[clivegto]

Heavy but cheap as chips. Oil cooled motors also work as a brace.

[DAZ]

2 minutes ago, clivegto said:

Heavy but cheap as chips. Oil cooled motors also work as a brace.

That's the thing plenty of metal in the frame but is it stiffer than a bandit , it looks it to me ,but I was curious to hear from those who have track dayed them to see, like you say cheap too tha kan tell thys from Yorkshire al reyt  

[wraith]

I've never had a bandit frame or bike so can't say what the weight difference is but looking at what I have a pics of bandit frames, I would think the gsxf frame would be a bit stiffer.

Like you say, it would be interesting to know 

And everybody has a bandit 

I remember when the 600 teapot first came out and it was supposed to be in the same category as the cbr600 fzr600 etc so must have something about them?

[clivegto]

Mutch to misconception a bandit can be set up to go really well round and round even if the teapot has a stiffer frame I don't think the differences would be hardly noticeable. More about surprising the shit out of every one else with both machines.

[Omegasteve]

Proud to be featured above  and more than okay to use any pics mate.

From my limited knowledge I'd agree, from my thoughts it'd be somewhere between the gsxr and the bandit in regards to frame stiffness and with relevant mods I'd think they could be made to go pretty well, as some on here have already proven. I'd like to think they are a great entry/mid level machine for track/fast road use. Thats what mine will eventually be getting use for anyway purely for cost of repairs and mod options.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Omegasteve

[Lachie04]

I've weighted a teapot frame against a 89 gsxr frame and they was only 6 kg difference frame and swinger having cut the rear subframe of mine and replaced it with a ally subframe (there's over 6 kg in the sub frame in itself) it now weighs less than a89 gsxr.  There is little you could do to add extra bracing and the whole chassis is stiff enough I've raced a few bikes and the teapot is capable with anything I've ridden other than a race prepped duccatttiii  and taken it against a 600 supersport my times on the track were comparable to mid field race times and qualify 2nd row on the grid in a hotly contested class  while using standard Metzler roadtech street tires it never felt out of shape or pushed to hard while keeping up with the supersport race bike I obviously would  need some work by  modding all the  original suspenders and it would slay a blandit frame alone in handling  but then I am biased lol 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Lachie04

[DAZ]

Thanks for the replies guys, @wraith yes it was always in there with the 600 supersport tests in the magazines of the period . I don't think I'm a fast rider, in fact I know I'm not , but in the past when I've had my bandit 12 squirming around under me through fast corners I 've never known if it was frame or suspension and I'm not good enough to know, and this and looking at the frames themselves popped the question plus the early teapots are becoming more attractive for some reason.....

Then comes the updated suspension,tyre question which puts more forces through the frame ....

@Lachie04 interesting on the weights of both frames thanks for that 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by DAZ
Addition

[TLRS]

Generally shorter load path means stiffer. By load path meaning the headstock to the swingarm pivot. The beams are further apart which probably helps as well.

 

[DAZ]

1 hour ago, TLRS said:

Generally shorter load path means stiffer. By load path meaning the headstock to the swingarm pivot. The beams are further apart which probably helps as well.

 

The teapot must have been one of the earliest 4 stroke Suzukis with a beam 'type' frame then ,I can't remember one before it, rg250 was the earliest 2stroke I can remember from the big S 

[fatblokeonbandit]

In my opinion the bandit handles better, or mine dose, the teapot is longer and a bit wobblyer when pushed hard, it gets in a bit of a state when changing direction really quick.

BUT it issoooooo much fun, in fact I’ve got mine sorted  agin for use this year, test day  at t castle Combe 5th next month,, 

 

[TonyGee]

got to agree on the bandit frame, they are pretty stiff but let down by the suspension which can be upgraded. 

[clivegto]

When you start to look at MK1 b12 (b6) frame there quite similar to a XR69. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by clivegto

[DAZ]

Your right there Clive , it's only when like you have the two images side by side that the similarities become apparent ,though the bandit frame looks to have more bracing up top compared to the xr69 has more at the bottom of frame rails . Thanks for finding the pictures 

[clivegto]

XR69 is obviously lighter as well but a lot more expensive. Have to admit that I am a fan of the MK1 b12 frame 

[DAZ]

21 minutes ago, clivegto said:

XR69 is obviously lighter as well but a lot more expensive. Have to admit that I am a fan of the MK1 b12 frame 

Me too,it was my first mk1 b12 that bought me here years ago,first on the old site as daz b12  then the intermediate one and this now one. I love em , my bike ownership has been through the bigger better best scenario and now I'm coming back to the bikes that gave me the most fun and enjoyment

[clivegto]

15 minutes ago, DAZ said:

Me too,it was my first mk1 b12 that bought me here years ago,first on the old site as daz b12  then the intermediate one and this now one. I love em , my bike ownership has been through the bigger better best scenario and now I'm coming back to the bikes that gave me the most fun and enjoyment

Today's fun for me after work 

[TonyGee]

59 minutes ago, DAZ said:

Me too,it was my first mk1 b12 that bought me here years ago,first on the old site as daz b12  then the intermediate one and this now one. I love em , my bike ownership has been through the bigger better best scenario and now I'm coming back to the bikes that gave me the most fun and enjoyment

ive had a few bandits, i think they are great bikes and ive had so much fun on em and they are tough as old boots. 

[bluedog59]

Many years ago I ran a CB900f with a full, ex works, RSC996 engine (dry clutch, close box, the lot). Funny thing was, it handled far better despite having waaaay more BHP...............solid mounted engine rather than rubber mount. You could convert a GSXR/B12 engine to solid mount to help brace the frame. Another trick they used in AMA Superbike was to weld in the removable frame rail

(unless you had a "works" frame which were actually a lightweight copy of a stock frame.

[Lachie04]

My thoughts on gsxf handling is the frame is well capable but the rear swinger let's it down as it's too long and twisty it also has a tendency to understeer sort these out and it's fine 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Lachie04

[wraith]

1 hour ago, bluedog59 said:

Many years ago I ran a CB900f with a full, ex works, RSC996 engine (dry clutch, close box, the lot). Funny thing was, it handled far better despite having waaaay more BHP...............solid mounted engine rather than rubber mount. You could convert a GSXR/B12 engine to solid mount to help brace the frame. Another trick they used in AMA Superbike was to weld in the removable frame rail

(unless you had a "works" frame which were actually a lightweight copy of a stock frame.

Didn't someone make the rubber mounts in billet ?

[clivegto]

13 hours ago, wraith said:

Didn't someone make the rubber mounts in billet ?

I once bought a oil boiler 1277cc which had solid front engine mounts lightly welded into the case.

[wraith]

1 minute ago, clivegto said:

I once bought a oil boiler 1277cc which had solid front engine mounts lightly welded into the case.

I could of sworn that someone was making them, Grumpy 1260? 

Or it may of just been a post I read 

[clivegto]

51 minutes ago, wraith said:

I could of sworn that someone was making them, Grumpy 1260? 

Or it may of just been a post I read 

Can't remember either 

[Dezza]

Both my OSS bikes have aftermarket frames made by very well-known race specialists and both use the engine as a stressed member. The engines are also a very tight fit in the mounts, much tighter than on an OEM frame.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Dezza