Bad running

[wraith]

17 hours ago, TonyGee said:

is it worth doing a compression test wraith ?  just to rule out the engine  

My bad, I was thinking of another engine lol.

The compression is 

Cylinder 1 = 180

Cylinder 2= 175

Cylinder 3= 180

Cylinder 4= 180

So all good 

 

[wraith]

12 hours ago, rodneya said:

What plugs are you using?

There have been a lot of fakes around lately, some even from reputable suppliers.

Very frustrating, I feel your pain.

 

I've got 4 different sets of NGK JR9B and one set of Denso x27etr 

As you say lots of fake NGK around and when you look at the 4 sets I've got they are all slightly different within the lettering on the plugs, that's why I tried the Denso plugs but still the same problem lol.

 

[wraith]

Ok, still thinking it must be carbs ISH lol 

So, as I've got two sets of K&N dual pods filters, I'm going to give one set another good clean but not re-oil them.

The carb settings I've been running for the last well years are (gsxr750 38mm carbs)

Needle in the middle groove.

Standard gsxr750 pilot jets 

Pilot screws set at 3.5 turns out 

Main jet 150 

All Dyna jet kit and put new Dyna needles and emulsion tubes in last winter.

So now I've swapped the plugs it's running on all 4 cylinders, so with the standard coils fitted and with unoiled filters I'm going to see how it runs and see if it drops a cylinder at some point.

Yes I know that's two things done at the same time lol

 

 

 

 

[TonyGee]

good luck wraith, at least you know the engine is in good order 

[Fazz711]

Hi bud.

Have you tried swapping the plug that's gone down with one that hasn't to see what happens?

 

[wraith]

2 hours ago, Fazz711 said:

Hi bud.

Have you tried swapping the plug that's gone down with one that hasn't to see what happens?

 

Not tried swapping plugs that's in the engine but put a used plug (as I've got so many now lol) and as soon as you put a different plug in it runs on all 4.

I've had a interesting day on the kat today, started off not running on number 4 (which I knew from the last time) so check the spark, all good, put a spear plug in runs on all 4 cleaned the filters and did not oil them.

Decided to give Dyna UK a bell, to see if they had any ideas. A interesting conversation with them (they believe, with modern fuels the old colour of plug is not as reliable as it was) any way, he told me, he thinks it could be a bad earth (or in his words, a wrongly fitted earth) I've had this earthed to the main earth wire from the battery that goes to the frame (the other big earth goes to the engine) he told me to send the earth wire from the Dyna 2000 start to the engine cases and see what happens. Well did that, started the bike, running on 3 (before it was running on all 4) so checked not running on number 4 again but this time not spark on number 4 interesting I think, so it's got to be the Dyna 2000, so I get the miss to come a help me to get the bike on the bike ramp (as I know with it just running on 3 cylinders it could be a pain and I don't want to drop the bike by getting it unbalanced. So she came out I started the bike up and what you know, running on all 4 lol.

So I think I'm going to give Dyna a call tomorrow and see about sending it to them to be tested.

Ever way (and as I've wanted to tidy up the wiring for years, and as I've got a very good gsx600f harness, gsx750f CDI and b6 pickups. I'm going to remove the old harness and replace it.

Then see how we go.

Sorry, bit of a long one that lol

[Upshotknothole]

Just a thought before you pull it all apart. As these are wasted spark, if your leads are long enough, can you swap 1 and 4? See if #1 starts acting up on #1 rather than #4? The fact that it keeps acting up mainly on #4 makes it sound like it’s between the coil and the head if it’s not carb related. If the leads aren’t long enough, can you swap them between the outputs on the coil? Also what happens if it’s not running on #4 and you only pull the cap off the plug and put it back on? Don’t bother pulling the plug, only move the lead around to see if it’s a bad connection/short. 

Usually when I’ve dealt with ignition problems, it’s both leads coming off the coil if it’s a signal issue, or only one lead if it’s a shit connection. 

[wraith]

20 minutes ago, Upshotknothole said:

Just a thought before you pull it all apart. As these are wasted spark, if your leads are long enough, can you swap 1 and 4? See if #1 starts acting up on #1 rather than #4? The fact that it keeps acting up mainly on #4 makes it sound like it’s between the coil and the head if it’s not carb related. If the leads aren’t long enough, can you swap them between the outputs on the coil? Also what happens if it’s not running on #4 and you only pull the cap off the plug and put it back on? Don’t bother pulling the plug, only move the lead around to see if it’s a bad connection/short. 

Usually when I’ve dealt with ignition problems, it’s both leads coming off the coil if it’s a signal issue, or only one lead if it’s a shit connection. 

I can check at the weekend but this was doing it with the Dyna coils and now the standard coils, it's (I think) just doing it on number 4 at the minute, as it was doing it on number 1 and 2 and 3 at any given time lol

[Upshotknothole]

14 minutes ago, wraith said:

I can check at the weekend but this was doing it with the Dyna coils and now the standard coils, it's (I think) just doing it on number 4 at the minute, as it was doing it on number 1 and 2 and 3 at any given time lol

Yeah, mainly just thinking out loud here. If it is the Dyna2000, can you hook up a multimeter or timing light and make sure you’re actually getting signal to the coil for every time it should fire? 

[dago]

What about valve stem seals? Just a thought oil getting past them fouling the plug when starting depending which valves are open hence the randomness. Sometimes the oil can sit on a closed valve dumping it into the cylinder when it's opened? Combined with the richness from the choke might not take a lot of oil too foul the plugs

Edited July 27, 2022 by dago
Added something

[Fazz711]

Glad you seem to be moving forward mate. 

Bad earth on electrics can be a nightmare. 

[wraith]

How the memory fades over time 

After scratching my head as to where the other plug is for the CDI was, and digging out all the spair cdi's and pickups. I've now remember I've got a 1052 harness on the bike  so I can just plug the 1052 CDI box and pickups straight in 

[Fazz711]

10 hours ago, wraith said:

How the memory fades over time 

After scratching my head as to where the other plug is for the CDI was, and digging out all the spair cdi's and pickups. I've now remember I've got a 1052 harness on the bike  so I can just plug the 1052 CDI box and pickups straight in 

Any better?

[wraith]

12 minutes ago, Fazz711 said:

Any better?

Lol, had to go out today but I'm going to be doing some on the bike tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

I will be sending the Dyna 2000 off to Dyna and let them check it out.

I have replaced the earth wires to the frame and crank cases.

[wraith]

Wired the 1052 CDI and pickups in today, replace the earth's and as I was at it put a new positive battery on.

Checked had a spark on all 4 

Put the tank back on turned the ignition on pulled the choke out, prest the start button, and yes it started first press straight away and on all 4 

Just hope it stays like that, but it did start better than its dune for a long time.

[TonyGee]

fingers crossed 

[denisd]

Phew 

[Fazz711]

So glad you seem to be working it out mate 

[wraith]

Cheers mate, so am I  after all this time pissing with carbs 

Up to now each time I've came to start it, it's started first press of the button which it's not done for over a year, no smoking, spluttering or turning over till it fires  

So I'm thinking it's something with the Dyna 2000, going to send it off to them and get it checked out. 

[Fazz711]

What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger bud

[Captain Chaos]

This means no Katana bodywork for sale in the near future?

 

* walks off disappointed *

 

[wraith]

29 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

This means no Katana bodywork for sale in the near future?

 

* walks off disappointed *

 

sorry

[clivegto]

Nice to see you have found the problem. 

[wraith]

3 hours ago, clivegto said:

Nice to see you have found the problem. 

Seems like it  

Thanks for everyone who helped. As this was doing my head in. 

[Fazz711]

15 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

This means no Katana bodywork for sale in the near future?

 

* walks off disappointed *

 

Stuff selling the Kat bodywork. 

I wanted the whole thing faults and all LOL