1988 GSX1100f engine into 1997 GSX600f teapot

[Motovalet]

Thanks for your reply that all sounds a lot more promising! To confirm, when sitting on the bike, cylinders run left to right, so I have the left coil with the HT leads running to #1 and #4 pot and the right coil running to #2 and #3 and swap the LT leads (not the orange ones) with each other ie coil on the left with coil on the right? I'm not 100% sure how you set up the static timing, I assumed it was fixed? Yesterday I re gapped all of the valves and erred on the maximum so they are all now 0.15mm inlet and 0.23mm exhaust, I set them so the feeler gauge just dragged through the gap. I then checked the cam marks numbered 1, 2, 3 etc. and the arrows were all in the right place in relation to the timing mark T and the ignition stator. I also counted the pins on the cam chain between the cam wheels and checked they were 21 as per the manual to rule out the chain maybe having have slipped? I really don't want to have to take off the cam cover again as I've already stripped one of the cam retaining nuts and bodged it back in with solder wire to get a bit of torque. Fortunately it's one of the middle ones  so hopefully the rest will hold the cam cover down securely.

It'll be a real shame if I have to pull this motor out of the bike and start over as it's been a right bloody pain getting in there to begin with and I stopped counting how much money I've spent since on bearings, tyres, chain and sprockets, looms and batteries etc. not to mention paint and time! I've still got to source a large bore silencer with an inlet of 75mm and a few other niggly jobs but apart from getting it to run, I thought I was in the home straight! :-(    

[Captain Chaos]

54 minutes ago, Motovalet said:

To confirm, when sitting on the bike, cylinders run left to right, so I have the left coil with the HT leads running to #1 and #4 pot and the right coil running to #2 and #3 and swap the LT leads (not the orange ones) with each other ie coil on the left with coil on the right?

Yes. That's also what I suggested in my previous post.

[Motovalet]

Right, coils and HT leads are wired correctly, if I swap about the LT leads, still nothing? I checked each plug and each HT lead suppressor cap and have a spark on all four plugs, albeit not a brilliant fat blue spark but it is blue! Battery is brand new and fully charged and the bike bike is turning over plenty fast enough. All four plugs still don't appear to be wet with fuel, maybe a very slight oiling if anything, which must point back to the carbs or maybe the motor just doesn't have enough suction due to poor compression? Unfortunately I've not got a compression tester to confirm. All I know is that when the palm of my hand is over either carb inlet  there's definitely suction and I get fuel over my hand from the pilot holes at the bottom of the carbs mouth. There's also pressure but less so at the exhaust. It's almost as if the carbs aren't quite sucking the fuel up and into the motor? 

I'm currently using an auxillary petrol tank and not the bikes tank and hence no vacuum connected to top of carb #3 (I think this is the correct  take off). Is this likely to have an effect on it not drawing fuel through or is it back to stripping the carbs again? Help needed!! :-) 

[Dr Jon]

Make sure the vacuum connection on the top of carb 3 is blocked off if you're not using it to run the vacuum tap otherwise you'll have an air leak.

Connect the LT wires as you had them when you got backfiring in the exhaust. Get the moto spinning and spray WD40 into the airbox as it's spinning (no choke). See if you can get it backfiring again like that. If so, then swap the LT leads again and do the same thing, see if it will try to fire any better. The fact that you have good sparks on all plugs means that your wiring is all working so the problem is more likely to be sparks at the wrong time or just a lack of fuel. If your sparks are at the right time it will fire on the WD40 regardless of the carbs. Even with a totally worn out engine it should at least try to fire up like this even if it ends up running like a bag of crap. Try this and let us know what happens. Don't get too carried away with huge amounts of WD40 into the airbox, just a good squirt every now and again while it's spinning.

[Motovalet]

Ok,I'll give that a try. Yes I've blocked off the vacuum take off on the carb but there's no airbox in place at the moment as I wanted to check it ran before wrestling it into place! Do you think I need to fit that before the WD40 idea? What about just squirting some neat fuel into the intakes as the motor spins, would that work??

[VJ]

Check the microfiche for your particular carb setup but the bst36ss on my bandit 12 have one fuel inlet pipe and 2 overflows, you may be putting petrol down the wrong pipes. Also If its jetted for an airbox then dont be surprised if it wont fire up with open carbs, Ive had CVs before not lift slides with no box or filter.

[Motovalet]

I've def got the fuel feed right, on mine there are two inlets between each float bowl and the breathers are at the top. I tried again with the airbox on and still zilch :-( I've just stripped and cleaned the carbs and reset the floats for the zillionth time and am going to give it one last go before chucking a sheet over the whole bike and listing it on a popular auction site as an "unfinished project" :-)

Edited March 27, 2016 by Motovalet
typo

[Motovalet]

Well once again zip, nothing, nowt. I think the carbs must be fooked, even though they appear clean and in good order? I took the plugs out and they are all still sparking and they still appear dry so has to be the carbs I guess?

[Dr Jon]

Are you saying that when you spin it over and spray WD40 into the carbs you get nothing at all, not even a backfire? If so the starter motor would have to be taking all the power and leaving none for sparks when spinning against compression.

It shouldn't matter if your carbs are knackered, if you've got sparks in the cylinder and are spraying WD40 into the back of the carbs then you should at least get some attempt to fire. If it fires on a few cylinders and then dies immediately then you are firing the cylinders in the right order and you have a fuel problem.

If it just backfires in the exhaust then you are firing the cylinders in the wrong order.

If you get absolutely nothing then you do not have sparks in the cylinder.

 

Get hold of some proper Easy Start, you can usually find it in a petrol station. Add some jump leads from a car battery or booster to your battery and spin it over again while spraying Easy Start into the airbox. If this doesn't even give you a few backfires then there is no way you have sparks in the cylinders.

 

One other thought, when you spin the motor and open the throttle check the slides are actually moving up in the throttles bodies. You can see this through the airbox if you take the filter out. Can't imagine why all diaphragms would fail to lift but might be worth checking.

[Motovalet]

Well I shoved the bike to back of the garage and chucked a cover over it so I don't have to deal with it anymore! I think me and the Suzook need a little "space" :-) I tried everything you suggested and here's my conclusions A) carbs are deffo fubar! The slides do not want to move, despite all diaphragms being in good nick? B) The plugs spark (weakly outside of the cylinders) on all four pots but clearly are no longer firing inside the cylinders, despite initially backfiring when I first tried to fire the bike up after the motor went in? 

I think therefore I need new coils, new leads plus HT caps (the plugs were brand new anyway) and a set of known working carbs and probably a known to be working replacement motor?? So, I can't fund all of this just yet but I'll try and recoup some green by selling the fooked carbs and motor on as spares or repair and maybe revisit the project a little later. It's really knarked me off having got so very close to finishing it and it's in stark contrast to how your motor swap went so well! :-)  I just wished I hadn't sunk so much cash into all the other new bits and pieces foolishly thinking it'd all come together! I have thought about selling the lot on including the 600 motor but I doubt it'd make much more than £600 and it probably owes me at least double that! Ouch!!    

Edited March 29, 2016 by Motovalet
Typo

[gsx]

Haven't read all your thread but . New plugs if you haven't already tried and have had two gsx oil boilers that sparked but not at the right time ,

Cdi both times 

 

[Motovalet]

The plugs were brand new and the CDI was known as working on the old 600 lump but I guess it could have gone bad during the 750 transplant somehow?? I've chucked the bike under a cover now and intend to sell the 750 motor, the carbs and pipe and start again with a known running motor another time along with new coils, new leads decent carbs and now by the sounds of it a CDI! It's no wonder there's always  abandoned projects up for sale, it's not an easy or cheap job by any stretch of the imagination! Teapot/GSXR parts anybody?? :-) 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Motovalet

[Motovalet]

Ah! Just had an Eureka moment..... should I have gotten hold of a GSXR750L CDI then? I used the old 600F one, maybe that's the issue??

Edited March 30, 2016 by Motovalet

[Swirl]

Good read gonna embark on this soon myself, with a 1991 GSX750F Slingshot with a 1996 Powerscreen doner, they are both sat in the garage with the teapot looking at the powerscreen saying you aren't put that thing anywhere near me, with powerscreen smiling back bend over baby.

[Del]

On 30/12/2015 at 9:41 PM, Dr Jon said:

Thanks Captain. Unfortunately the original 600 carbs are only 31mm

 

It was only the 1988 teapot 600 that had bst31ss metal tops(same as the bst34ss),the 89-97 teapot 600 got slingshot bst33ss,which are just smaller bore versions of the bst36ss cv's.Then the 98 got the crap bsr cv's

 

[Gsx-Mutattack28]

I know this thread is a little outdated but I figured I would post up my 1997 gsx600 transformation

Modified frame

Gsxr1000 rear swingarm

1998 Scrad gsxr750 from end

07 zx6r subframe an tail molded together with tank an seat.

Custom undertail dual exhaust

Powder coated myself

 

 

An now I will be putting in a 92 gsx1100. Motor arrives in a couple days

Cheers fellas

[wraith]

There some mad and grate work there 

[Swirl]

I've finished mine and its ended up trike and its a total weapon

[Nigkat]

Thats a big chunk taken out of that swingingarm.?

[Gsx-Mutattack28]

it was braced up behind that filler plate i put in there.

[Matt-Man]

So you're gonna put over 100 BHP through that swing arm, with more than 50% of it's integrity compromised.

No amount of 6mm plate It's going to hold. Even all of the internal bracing in the world won't stop that from twisting up.

It's gonna snap !!!

My advice, junk it before it makes a mess of you....

 

[Gsx-Mutattack28]

We will see. I have faith in my calculations,

If you wanna think about it, where is the most direction of torgue? 

Forward, chain side...

I would love to see the motor torgue that swingarm forward an snap the lateral on the chain side. 

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Gsx-Mutattack28
Explaining ttheroy

[Captain Chaos]

1 hour ago, Gsx-Mutattack28 said:

where is the most direction of torgue?

at max lean angle. Right turn in this case would put a big load on the modified area.

[Gsx-Mutattack28]

Right but not enough load to build up enough force to buckle the otherside, to allow the modified section to open up. 

I will watch closely as it gets shakin down. An see where it goes.

Appreciate the concern

[Sandman]

On ‎23‎.‎04‎.‎2017 at 3:51 PM, Gsx-Mutattack28 said:

We will see. I have faith in my calculations,

If you wanna think about it, where is the most direction of torgue? 

Forward, chain side...

I would love to see the motor torgue that swingarm forward an snap the lateral on the chain side. 

 

Have you checked the fatigue strength and number of stress cycles?