newbie with a efi setup question

[mrutah12]

First off thank you for letting me join the forum

I have a  1983 gs1100 motor sitting in a custom ATV frame the motor has been punch out to a 1500cc

fuel injected- 1000cc dynamics injectors

microsquirt ecu

gm3bar map

gm IAT

gm coolant  temp ( have it setup in the breather housing on top of the valve cover)

quadspart to drive Dyna 3 0hm coils

Dyna s ignition

my problem is with the timing normally you would run the Dyna to the coils do a static timing test to make sure the timing is correct . but I am having the squirt control the timing  and here is were my problem lies I am unable to set the timing so the 1-4 mark lines up with the mark on the timing plate so when I go to start it it will kick back like the timing is to far advanced  I would love to run a 36-1 trigger wheel but I don't have the knowledge or the tools to build one  and I'm not sure which one I would need looking at trigger wheels.com  or which type of pickup to use. I was thinking maybe I could use the trigger wheel and pickup off a 92 or 93 gsx1100g but I'm not sure it still has the old mechanical advance and I was wonder if locking it in full advance would work or taking the weights off of it I mean it will start and run but wont idle I have a good rpm signal everything works I haven't been able to setup my fuel table yet or my ignition table yet  one step at a time  first if i cant get a trigger wheel setup then I need to make my Dyna s ignition work  sorry for the long post any help would be greatly appreciated

[Gixer1460]

A picture of what you have would help. But from what I can make out you don't appear to have any form of trigger / toothed timing plate - without one you will find it extremely hard to set up the injection / timing. If the dyna S still has the ATU that will not help! Need more info really!

Oh and the coolant temp needs to be in coolant - where you have it is mainly hot air - needs to go in oil and be calibrated for oil temps & oil warm ups. Also a 3 bar map sensor has pretty coarse resolution for a N/A engine - 2/3rds of it is ignored - get a 1 bar sensor to make life easier!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Gixer1460

[mrutah12]

ok thank hou I will post a picture of what I havein a little bit this is what Im using for my trigger  it will start and run but its hard to start and it kicks back the dyana s goes to the VR1- VR2-  of my microsquirt I have 2 pullup resistors tied in to the wires coming from the dyna s as per instruction  from DIYAuto  and I have a quad spark controling the coils .

[Swiss Toni]

And welcome to OSS, too!

[Gixer1460]

44 minutes ago, mrutah12 said:

ok thank hou I will post a picture of what I havein a little bit this is what Im using for my trigger  it will start and run but its hard to start and it kicks back the dyana s goes to the VR1- VR2-  of my microsquirt I have 2 pullup resistors tied in to the wires coming from the dyna s as per instruction  from DIYAuto  and I have a quad spark controling the coils .

I do not know enough about Microsquirt to give informed answers but I believe the two outputs (effectively a two tooth wheel) plus the inclusion of the mechanical ATU to alter timing and injection points, is severely compromising the installation! Why is the pick up plate in its fully retarded position?  This should 'help' starting as normally the regular ATU timing marks occurs with the plate centred in the slots. A 1500cc is a big motor to spin over with onboard starter - may be its too slow or drawing to much from the battery to reliably start?

If it were me, i'd seriously look at making a multi toothed timing wheel 8-1 or 12-1 tooth for ease although 24 -1 or 36-1 would be better, use a conventional GS / GSX pick up and look at using the MS  #3 M-N Crank Wheel without Cam Sync. Small 50mm diameter wheels are available cheaply enough. There are guys on here far more experienced with MS based systems that should be able to help further!

[Arttu]

So you are using the dual trigger mode in the Microsquirt? I have never tried it by myself but I have heard it doesn't work too well in reality.

Like already suggested using some missing tooth trigger would be a good idea. I would recommend something between 16-24 teeth and 1 or 2 missing. I can supply a bolt-on set with 24-2 wheel if you are interested.

[Captain Chaos]

2 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Why is the pick up plate in its fully retarded position? 

looks fully advanced to me

[mrutah12]

Yes I would be intrested on the bolt on you are talking about what would be the cost what pickup would i need for it or is it complete with pickup ? Thank you for your responce you are correct I am using the twin trigger mode and I agree it is not working well at all 

[mrutah12]

2 hours ago, Arttu said:

So you are using the dual trigger mode in the Microsquirt? I have never tried it by myself but I have heard it doesn't work too well in reality.

Like already suggested using some missing tooth trigger would be a good idea. I would recommend something between 16-24 teeth and 1 or 2 missing. I can supply a bolt-on set with 24-2 wheel if you are interested.

yes  thank you

Edited September 1, 2020 by mrutah12
had to add to it

[mrutah12]

1 hour ago, Captain Chaos said:

looks fully advanced to me

It is  but I am going to go a different route  Im going to do a toothed wheel

[Gixer1460]

14 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

looks fully advanced to me

I struggled trying to work it out! I figured if from that side the engine is rotating 'forward' ie. clockwise, then the pick-up point is closest to TDC so retarded? Surely to be advanced it has to be farthest from TDC?

But being fully advanced would make a lot of sense with regard to the starting problems and general running! Full static advance at idle maybe 20 degrees then plus ATU advance of +25-30 degrees? is far to much IMO.

[Captain Chaos]

47 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

I struggled trying to work it out! I figured if from that side the engine is rotating 'forward' ie. clockwise, then the pick-up point is closest to TDC so retarded? Surely to be advanced it has to be farthest from TDC?

But being fully advanced would make a lot of sense with regard to the starting problems and general running! Full static advance at idle maybe 20 degrees then plus ATU advance of +25-30 degrees? is far to much IMO.

I was just looking at the slots in the backplate, it is in the fully advanced position. 

[mrutah12]

3 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

I was just looking at the slots in the backplate, it is in the fully advanced position. 

It is I was using my timing light and were it is sitting i can the timing mark  its moves between the tdc mark and the F mark I  tried to do static timing but because the timing is controlled by the microsquirt I cant  static time it  im going to with a tooth wheel setup. From what I have read doing the dual trigger setup is a pain in the butt

[Gixer1460]

4 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

I was just looking at the slots in the backplate, it is in the fully advanced position. 

DOH - I am a fuckwit! I was looking at the screws like they moved and not the slots that moved - this retirement lark fucks with your head man!

@mrutah12- you have the beauty of a dry GS / GSX ignition which means you can hook up a timing light triggered off #1 plug lead and time it when running - bliss! Try doing that with a GSXR and you end up wearing the contents of the sump before you are finished LOL! I bet if the plate was set more centered in the slots starting would be easier!

[Arttu]

22 hours ago, mrutah12 said:

Yes I would be intrested on the bolt on you are talking about what would be the cost what pickup would i need for it or is it complete with pickup ? Thank you for your responce you are correct I am using the twin trigger mode and I agree it is not working well at all 

It's a complete set including the wheel, new pickup and mounting plate for the pickup.

[mrutah12]

this what ive been working on

[Gixer1460]

Frankenstein & Barking mad ! ! !

I assume the front tyres are of no practical use except to stop the front end dragging on the floor?

[mrutah12]

5 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Frankenstein & Barking mad ! ! !

I assume the front tyres are of no practical use except to stop the front end dragging on the floor?

This is just run out on the sand dunes thats why the front tires look like that

[Blubber]

I like the engine, the mods to it and the plans for it.

Because "we" ( the mods / admins ) like it a lot: you are lucky.... very lucky.

Most stuff with more than 2 wheels doesn't stay on here long.

Afteral ..this is a motorcycle site with a strict operating window as mentioned in the rules.. some might even say .. run by people who need Ritalin  

- Can you limit pics of the 4 wheeled anomaly ( to OSS that is) ?

Please proceed 

[mrutah12]

4 hours ago, Blubber said:

I like the engine, the mods to it and the plans for it.

Because "we" ( the mods / admins ) like it a lot: you are lucky.... very lucky.

Most stuff with more than 2 wheels doesn't stay on here long.

Afteral ..this is a motorcycle site with a strict operating window as mentioned in the rules.. some might even say .. run by people who need Ritalin  

- Can you limit pics of the 4 wheeled anomaly ( to OSS that is) ?

Please proceed 

I will sure do that sorry about that

[mrutah12]

So now I  have a trigger wheel setup coming  thanks to Attru now I have to fix the starter I think I broke it trying to start it I get a screeching noise and the motor dosent turn over  at least I hope its the starter and not the starter clutch I will find out this weekend

[Screwriverracing]

Could be the rotor come loose and  spinning on the shaft, don't try it again until you inspect it.

Cheers SRR

[mrutah12]

6 hours ago, Screwriverracing said:

Could be the rotor come loose and  spinning on the shaft, don't try it again until you inspect it.

Cheers SRR

you were right the rotor is spinning on the crank i guess the woodruff key broke  also found out that his screws that hold the stator in place were loose in fact one fell out when i pulled the stator cover off now i need a puller to remove it so I can fix it  anybody live in utah that has one i can borrow

[Gixer1460]

Rotor hasn't got a 'key' - its a taper fit. The starter clutch to rotor bolts OFTEN fail - they are High Tensile types, quite brittle and shear if there is any movement possible. Radical solution is tack weld the starter clutch to the rotor x3 or drill both for a dowel / roll pin + bolts with loctite! And you build an engine like that and you haven't got a puller - shame on you LOL! There are two sizes - if its a GS1100 crank, its a small taper, if GS1150, its a big taper.

[mrutah12]

8 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Rotor hasn't got a 'key' - its a taper fit. The starter clutch to rotor bolts OFTEN fail - they are High Tensile types, quite brittle and shear if there is any movement possible. Radical solution is tack weld the starter clutch to the rotor x3 or drill both for a dowel / roll pin + bolts with loctite! And you build an engine like that and you haven't got a puller - shame on you LOL! There are two sizes - if its a GS1100 crank, its a small taper, if GS1150, its a big taper.

I didn't build it lol