Mk2 B12 into Inazuma 750 - few questions!

[Shill]

Hi all, first post here, wanted to share some progress on a current project and check if there’s anything I’m missing. I’m putting a mk2 B12 engine in a 2001 Inazuma. I'm new to this kind of lark so discovering a lot of stuff as I go along.

Current plan is:
Mk2 engine, PAIRS removed (thanks to previous owner)
Hydraulic clutch off the B12
Mk2 carbs
Original Zuma 750 loom and CDI (I have the B12 ones if needed)
K&N ovals (+ jet kit?)
Exhaust tbc – bought the B12 headers and may try to re-use the 750 link pipe and can if they will match up (the 750 has a Blueflame can)
Tank raised a bit with spacers at the back, or pingel tap for clearance
Need to drill out the 10mm mounting holes to take the 12mm mounts

Electrical stuff – so yeah I didn’t appreciate the difference between the mk1 and mk2 electrical system when I went shopping for 'a B1200 engine'. The zuma seems to be based on the mk1 Bandit, meaning various connectors are different to the mk2. Based on a couple of threads on here, I understand it’s possible to plug the mk2 engine into the mk1 loom, by switching over the neutral switch, pulse gen+oil sensor assembly, and alternator. If I do this, I figure my Zuma CDI will be ticking over as normal without knowing any difference. An old thread about this transplant mentions someone running a B12 with the 750 Zuma CDI, and I also understand from a guy on facebook the 1200 Zuma  engine can run happily with the 750 Zuma CDI, so I’m not expecting any major issues. I really want to avoid changing the loom as it then has a knock-on effect on clocks, switchgear, ignition switch etc.
Q: Am I missing anything here? Will running the 750 timing have any serious detrimental effects on the 1200?

Fueling etc – So I’ll be running the B1200 engine with aftermarket can (I realise the blueflame can may not exactly have ‘race’ credentials) and K&N ovals.
Q: Am I right in thinking this is a pretty standard off the shelf ‘stage 3 kit’ setup? What’s the advice out there on the best setup or jet kit for a Bandit mk2?
Crucially, if the consensus is it will need some proper dyno tuning work to run properly, am I best off skipping the DIY re-jet and just handing it over to a pro? What’s the cost for a proper dyno setup? I'm not looking for drag bike power here, just something useable and a bit fun.
Sure there’ll be other issues as I go along, will report back on progress

Biggest Q of all: Would I save myself a lot of grief at this point if I just get a mk1 B1200 and CDI, plug into my existing loom, and save all the arsing about? I'm at the stage of carrying over the bits to the 1200 engine, so given another weekend I can probably get it connected up and see if the proposed combo works.

Cheers!
Matt

[Captain Chaos]

Welcome to group therapy.

If you install the Zuma 750 alternator on the B12 engine, make sure the amount of teeth on the driven gear is the same. Swap if needed.

I am running my B12 engine on a GSX-R750 CDI and it all works well. Just keep the higher rev limit in mind and it will be ok.

The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) does f#ck all by the way, you can leave it disconnected.

[Mark28]

From my experience this weekend I would fit the loom to go with the engine and unwrap to get the connections where you need them.If your taking it to a dyno which I would recommend don't worry about jetting kits as the dyno operator will set it up as it needs to be.

[Shill]

Thanks for the input guys. How much should I expect to pay for a dyno setup, is there anyone recommended?

Shout outs to PaulM for the 1200 parts and to UKLee several years ago who was the first person to say "gsx750? You can put a 1200 in that!"

[vizman]

i'm pretty sure he wasn't.

[Shill]

First person to say it to me anyway

[Swiss Toni]

Welcome Shill. As you've discovered, there's plenty info on here just for the asking!

[Fazz711]

Hi bud. Welcome to OSS 

[Mark28]

On 1/21/2019 at 6:40 PM, Shill said:

Thanks for the input guys. How much should I expect to pay for a dyno setup, is there anyone recommended?

Shout outs to PaulM for the 1200 parts and to UKLee several years ago who was the first person to say "gsx750? You can put a 1200 in that!"

Paul M may have another loom as I got mine from him.I know he has all the MK2 electrics.

[1100fred]

Keep the inazuma loom that b12 engine will plug straight in

[Shill]

Thanks for the welcome guys, brilliant how much info is on here Will try with the inazuma loom first off. So what’s the rough price I can expect for a dyno setup? Got no experience of it, wondering how much to plan for. K&Ns arrived today

I’m away this weekend so will put the 1200 in at start of Feb all being well.

Edit: I do have the mk2 loom and CDI from Paul if needs be. Ideally want to keep the clocks and switchgear as standard for now though, think if I change the loom there’s other bits and bobs that’ll have to change to match. Thought if it’ll go with the existing wiring it’ll save a job for now.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Shill

[Shill]

Hi gurus,

Got the B12 in and running, brilliant to hear it fire up the first time! All I changed was the neutral switch and pulse gen to plug into the old 750 loom, the alternator connectors were the same so kept the one on the engine. It starts, it idles, everything seems to be working ok.

This weekend it's coming back out to drill out the rear engine mounts to take the B12 mounting bolts (10mm -> 12mm as per a B6 ->B12 transplant?), then going together properly with new mounting bolts etc.

Query on exhaust headers - I've seen a thread somewhere about 'half moon' spacers on the B12 that sit between the exhaust flange and the port on 2 of the headers. Is this something I need to lay my hands on? When I fired it up everything was put together a little loosely with old gaskets etc, when it goes back in for good I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

While I'm at it, oil coolers - I'm guessing the B12 has a bigger oil cooler than the little zuma - is this gonna be a problem?

The fit into the frame is pretty tight with the extra height and new carbs, haven't thought carefully about permanently mounting the tank yet. The internet seems to say a Pingel tap will give enough clearance to keep the existing mounts, or the alternative is spacing up the back of the tank by some amount. Also getting these engines back in the frame is a bit of a bugger eh?

[Shill]

Also cheers Cpt Chaos for the advice on the TPS - have left it disconnected for now, if i want to connect it it would mean some splicing (and I guess some multimeter fun to check it's the same output?)

Any noob errors I should watch out for doing my first engine swap? I'm getting new washers for the cooler hose banjos, old exhaust seems to fit the new collector box OK with a new mesh gasket, new header gaskets, oil and filter, plugs... missing anything?

[1100fred]

You’ll need to lift the tank at the back approximately 10mm otherwise it’ll sit on the rocker over , another option on the fuel tap is fazer600  it’s only on/off but very cheap on that site  

[Shill]

Hey gang. Slow progress on this, lots of life admin going on these last months.

Anyway - B12 clutch basics question. I don't have experience with hydraulic clutch actuators so I dont have the feel for how it should be. Got a braided line on there and had the cover in place to fill and bleed it, then took it off to check the fit, and seem to need to compress the piston to get it back on.

Is there anything I should watch out for here when fitting the cover? The movement on the piston seems to be very low - consider I'm used to the cable version with sone pretty visible in-out motion. Guess hydraulic is more similar to brakes, ie not a lot of motion but a lot of force? Also clearly there's no return action on the slave itself... So once it's in place is it a case of just pump the lever until the pushrod finds the point where it actuates the clutch, and then the clutch pushes back to 'return' the system to where it was when you release it?

Pushrod seems in decent condition at the engine side, assuming it's supposed to just slot in (and have a bit of waggle to it). All just feels a little fragile and conscious of damaging it if there's anything I've missed.

Sorry for super basic questions, just don't have the feel for what good looks like here, and obvs you can't inspect it when it's installed, so a bit of a black box. Current plan is open the bleed, force the piston back, close bleed, fit cover, pump handle a bit, then put it in gear and see if the clutch lets me spin the wheel, and if it stops when I let it out. If it works like a clutch should then I guess I'm ok.

Cheers!

[dupersunc]

24 minutes ago, Shill said:

Hey gang. Slow progress on this, lots of life admin going on these last months.

Anyway - B12 clutch basics question. I don't have experience with hydraulic clutch actuators so I dont have the feel for how it should be. Got a braided line on there and had the cover in place to fill and bleed it, then took it off to check the fit, and seem to need to compress the piston to get it back on.

Is there anything I should watch out for here when fitting the cover? The movement on the piston seems to be very low - consider I'm used to the cable version with sone pretty visible in-out motion. Guess hydraulic is more similar to brakes, ie not a lot of motion but a lot of force? Also clearly there's no return action on the slave itself... So once it's in place is it a case of just pump the lever until the pushrod finds the point where it actuates the clutch, and then the clutch pushes back to 'return' the system to where it was when you release it?

Pushrod seems in decent condition at the engine side, assuming it's supposed to just slot in (and have a bit of waggle to it). All just feels a little fragile and conscious of damaging it if there's anything I've missed.

Sorry for super basic questions, just don't have the feel for what good looks like here, and obvs you can't inspect it when it's installed, so a bit of a black box. Current plan is open the bleed, force the piston back, close bleed, fit cover, pump handle a bit, then put it in gear and see if the clutch lets me spin the wheel, and if it stops when I let it out. If it works like a clutch should then I guess I'm ok.

Cheers!

Sounds like you have the right idea.

[cheese monkey]

I found it was not a quick thing to bleed, compared to brakes at least. I didn't do it though, my mate did while I was doing some other crap so he might just of been useless.

[Shill]

Ok cool, I got it filled and bled, but seems like the action is very low. With it in gear, if I pull the clutch in I *can* spin the wheel but there's a lot of resistance, very different to if it's in neutral. Will maybe bleed again next weekend, also that clutch hasn't been used in like 6 months so wonder if it might take a while to loosen up?

[cheese monkey]

Yeh I have the same, shifting into Neutral is getting almost impossible! I'm planning on bleeding it thoroughly and I expect that will sort it out

[1100fred]

I kept the cable clutch on mine and it’s not to heavy and don’t get all the hassle of hydraulic clutch’s 

[Shill]

Is the sprocket cover a straight swap? I didn't consider keeping the cable, what did you have to change to put the cable mechanism on the B12?

[1100fred]

Yes the cable sprocket cover is a straight swop but I cannot remember which pushrod I used 

[1100fred]

Yes the cable sprocket cover is a straight swop but I cannot remember which pushrod I used 

[1100fred]

I think It was the short pushrod out of the 750 motor that matched the casing

[fatblokeonbandit]

I've done the swop several times, to 1127 and 1157 motors, using b6 and tpot covers, each time I made a push rod to suit, best way is to get a bit of 6mm wooden dowel and cut it a bit at a time until it works  right. Then make one the same in 6mm stainless.