Registration of a Spondon frame

[Bobby]

Just a question hopefully someone can answer

If you had a Spondon frame that's not got a number plate assigned to it and the donor bike that the frame was built for how do you go about registering the frame to the donor bikes number plate? is this possible as the original frame is essentially what the number plate links to, I am sure I have seen spondon framed bikes with normal age related plate and not Q registered

thanks in advance 

 

[Gixer1460]

The DVLA have tightened up the regulations severely in the past 5-10 years to stop the 'grandfather' rights of swapping / moving a chassis number from old to new. This is still permissible (I believe) if the new frame is essentially a reproduction / replica of the original ie. copy a GSX crap steel frame in chrome moly - same loops, angles etc. so std. mechanicals fit using std. fixings. In the classic car world, reproduction shells for Mini's, MGB's and Escorts are being produced 'aftermarket' no different as when 'service shells' were available from the original manufacturer - these can retain their original registration mark.

A Spondon / Harris / Moto Martin / Martek etc. frame doesn't qualify - they are not exact replica's and so have to go through the MSVA test - requirements are available online - and if passed, you WILL be issued a 'Q' plate!

[TonyGee]

the only time (as far as i know) you can swap over the frame number is if you are fitting a brand new OEM frame. done it twice in the past under warranty. 

[Bobby]

13 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

The DVLA have tightened up the regulations severely in the past 5-10 years to stop the 'grandfather' rights of swapping / moving a chassis number from old to new. This is still permissible (I believe) if the new frame is essentially a reproduction / replica of the original ie. copy a GSX crap steel frame in chrome moly - same loops, angles etc. so std. mechanicals fit using std. fixings. In the classic car world, reproduction shells for Mini's, MGB's and Escorts are being produced 'aftermarket' no different as when 'service shells' were available from the original manufacturer - these can retain their original registration mark.

A Spondon / Harris / Moto Martin / Martek etc. frame doesn't qualify - they are not exact replica's and so have to go through the MSVA test - requirements are available online - and if passed, you WILL be issued a 'Q' plate!

Ahh ok thanks, so it could be a bit tricky then... don't like the sound of having a Q plate 

[Bobby]

10 minutes ago, TonyGee said:

the only time (as far as i know) you can swap over the frame number is if you are fitting a brand new OEM frame. done it twice in the past under warranty. 

fair one, thanks for that 

[yantosh]

Why is the Q plate a deff ?  Tell them you are re-framing your donor bike, using as many of the donor components as possible, wheels, engine, loom, brakes etc, mark on the DVLA issued ViN number, msva it , mot it , apply for a reg number, include a covering letter explaining how much original bike you've used and request an age related plate as per donor. Worked for me , mine is on an 04 plate 

 

not a Spondon, but don't see that making a diff 

 

 

[Gixer1460]

I don't make the rules - I just explained them! Explaining anything to the 'knuckle draggers' at the DVLA is a mostly pointless exercise generally 'Computer say's No!' And, just out of interest, how much of that bike ^^^ is actually OEM stock - I don't care, just curious?

[TonyGee]

if it was mine I'd just go with the Q plate, at the end of the day its just a letter !!!!   the bike will still ride the same 

[yantosh]

2 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

I don't make the rules - I just explained them! Explaining anything to the 'knuckle draggers' at the DVLA is a mostly pointless exercise generally 'Computer say's No!' And, just out of interest, how much of that bike ^^^ is actually OEM stock - I don't care, just curious?

when it was registered, wheels, brakes, engine, fuel injection, wiring loom, steering stem, cooling system,  wheel spindles , stand, dash, exhaust headers,  swingarm spindle , enough to get it an age related plate , on an aftermarket frame kit, without any hassle, arguments or gnashing of teeth.  Jason Flather has an age related plate on his IZAX too 

and while all that stuff was from the donor bike, no one checked to confirm , photo's were sent, but I highly doubt anyone with an in depth knowledge of K series GSX-R's was drafted in the pour over them ?

[Dezza]

Regarding the original post, this is exactly the scenario for which Q plates were intended and why a Q plate is reserved for vehicles whose original date of registration cannot be verified as it's made of parts from different aged machines. It is a shame this concept was perverted by a load of twats ringing stuff in the 90s and putting them on Q plates as now we seem to have some sort of hysteria over Qs, a sort of mass Q-aversion. It's even spread to some insurance companies, who won''t insure Q reg machines. Having a Q plate machine does have some advantages when it comes to MOT regs but this can itself be a challenge when explaining this to MOT testers ignorant of the regulations. I comment from the position of having owned  the same Q plate Harris for 34 years.

 

If you use the registration for your donor bike then you'll have to transfer the frame number to the Spondon, and effectively end up with a ringer. Doing this isn't exactly rare and is obvious when you see some frame kit bikes out and about (mainly at shows) but personally I would much rather have a Q because this is what Q is for.

[Bobby]

29 minutes ago, Dezza said:

Regarding the original post, this is exactly the scenario for which Q plates were intended and why a Q plate is reserved for vehicles whose original date of registration cannot be verified as it's made of parts from different aged machines. It is a shame this concept was perverted by a load of twats ringing stuff in the 90s and putting them on Q plates as now we seem to have some sort of hysteria over Qs, a sort of mass Q-aversion. It's even spread to some insurance companies, who won''t insure Q reg machines. Having a Q plate machine does have some advantages when it comes to MOT regs but this can itself be a challenge when explaining this to MOT testers ignorant of the regulations. I comment from the position of having owned  the same Q plate Harris for 34 years.

 

If you use the registration for your donor bike then you'll have to transfer the frame number to the Spondon, and effectively end up with a ringer. Doing this isn't exactly rare and is obvious when you see some frame kit bikes out and about (mainly at shows) but personally I would much rather have a Q because this is what Q is for.

This might sound a stupid question but can you transfer a private registration onto a Q registered machine or not do you know?

[yantosh]

15 minutes ago, Bobby said:

This might sound a stupid question but can you transfer a private registration onto a Q registered machine or not do you know?

no, not allowed, Q is a Q

[Dezza]

What he said You cannot transfer a vanity plate onto a previously Q reg vehicle.

[clivegto]

From what I hear nowadays Q plates are quite sort after as its not a problem to swap stuff about on them like the engine. 

[Bobby]

fair play thats about as much as i need to know thank you for everyones response 

[370steve]

1 hour ago, clivegto said:

From what I hear nowadays Q plates are quite sort after as its not a problem to swap stuff about on them like the engine. 

never had problems swapping engines on any of my builds whatever their reg No 

[TonyGee]

22 minutes ago, 370steve said:

never had problems swapping engines on any of my builds whatever their reg No 

lucky you !!!!!! every time i do it i get the 3rd degree. so dont fecking bother anymore. 

[Dezza]

Anyway, the main relevant point has not even been mentioned until now - where are the pictures of the Spondon in question?

[yantosh]

1 hour ago, TonyGee said:

lucky you !!!!!! every time i do it i get the 3rd degree. so dont fecking bother anymore. 

just have your friendly neighbourhood bike shop make you up an invoice for swapping an engine  

[TonyGee]

44 minutes ago, yantosh said:

just have your friendly neighbourhood bike shop make you up an invoice for swapping an engine  

yeah i know, the thing is my friendly suzuki bike shop was where i worked for 8 years  and the boss would do one no problem, it just me being a lazy twat   but i need to do my 750ET so i will make an effort to go and get one    

[yantosh]

don't get me wrong, i think "the man" should mind his own business, but hey

[TonyGee]

ive no idea why they need this info for an engine change ? what if you've had an engine sitting in the corner of the shed for years and you get around to fitting it correctly and tell them the new numbers and size, most people on here don't need a mechanic and you haven't any proof of sale as you bought it of a mate, nobodys gona pay a shop are they ??? 

[yantosh]

control freaks with too much power trying to justify their existence ?  just a thought 

[MeanBean49]

Just a note to bear in mind on the Q plate thing.

Not all Q plates mean you can default to 1971 regulations.

If you have a declared year of manufacture on the V5 you need to comply to the rules relevant to that year.

I wanted to run black and silver plates on my Harris but technically couldnt because it had a manufacture date in 80's. Ive got another ZXR Q plate frame that has no date, saving that one for special use.

Saying that I dont think DVLA, Police or MOT testersactually have a clue exactly what the rules are themselves. I just make sure my insurance company know exactly what my bike is so at least then your covered if anything goes wrong.

Edited October 23, 2021 by MeanBean49

[yantosh]

insurance.... there's another shower of shady underhanded charlatans