Turbo advice needed GS1000

[Swirl]

Advice from the turbo gods needed,  never turbo'd a bike before defo not a air cooled dinosaur, bought a GS1000 frame last night for some reason, on a rather handy Q  plate, it's going to be a long term project as I've got a butchered Z1-R build on the go and scratch built 327cui small block chevy trike to finish, so I've got the opportunity to buy a Gs1000 engine with the top end disassembled, question is what's required to turbo a GS1000 engine or do i just throw a B12 in because it's easier. I'm not going for massive HP or boost(queue you will when you've got the turbo bug), will probably be going 1085cc if I can get the pistons, I believe they have a roller bearing crank where the oil pressure is to low for the turbo oil feed, how do I get round that, external electric oil pump? Is it the same principle as building a b12 turbo, forged pistons(low comp ratio) can you use busa pistons or card the wrist pins different, get the block bored, maybe welded crank, external oil pump, gasket set, base gasket to set deck height, ape studs and goodies, oh and 750 internal oil pump, what's best for the first turbo adventure Draw through or blow through, thanks in advance I'm on a steep learning curve.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Swirl

[clivegto]

Mk1 busa pistons have 20mm pins mk2 are 18mm.

[Swirl]

9 minutes ago, clivegto said:

Mk1 busa pistons have 20mm pins mk2 are 18mm.

Looks like GS1000 are 18mm, wonder if the block will take boreing to buse piston size without making the wall to thin, or alternating the crankcase

[clivegto]

You need to use 1127 or b12 liners but I belive they come through the block after boring, oil leakage is a problem. 

[Gixer1460]

All this discussed multiple times - use search - read the stuff - then ask your questions ! ! !

Yes i'm a miserable old fucker thats fed up to the back teeth sitting indoors not being able to do anything constructive except read the same questions written by newbies who want instant gratification without doing any research - how do you think people did it 20-25 years ago before the internet? We read books / magazines and just built stuff - sometimes badly and sometimes spectacularly good. The info is out there - just do the research!

Rant Over!

ps. Use the Blandit engine - life is hard enough, don't make it worse using a GS!

[Swirl]

14 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

All this discussed multiple times - use search - read the stuff - then ask your questions ! ! !

Yes i'm a miserable old fucker thats fed up to the back teeth sitting indoors not being able to do anything constructive except read the same questions written by newbies who want instant gratification without doing any research - how do you think people did it 20-25 years ago before the internet? We read books / magazines and just built stuff - sometimes badly and sometimes spectacularly good. The info is out there - just do the research!

Rant Over!

ps. Use the Blandit engine - life is hard enough, don't make it worse using a GS!

I have done a search and come up with a few issues like oil pressure on the roller bearing crank, but thanks for your input

[Arttu]

I guess that your first decision should be if you want to turbo a GS1000 with a real engine or build a typical mix-up with an oil cooled engine Latter option is much easier engine wise and probably the result will be better and more reliable. But the first one would be more interesting and respectable, IMO. So your call what you want to achieve.

I don't have any first hand experience about the GS1000 but most of the issues should be the same than with GSX1100 engines. Like you expected the oil pressure is really low due to roller crank bearings. You should be able to boost the pressure by some restrictor arrangement so an electric pump isn't mandatory. Then the crank will need welding to whitstand any abuse at higher power level. Forged pistons are highly recommended. And the clutch will need some beefing up for sure.

[Swirl]

17 minutes ago, Arttu said:

I guess that your first decision should be if you want to turbo a GS1000 with a real engine or build a typical mix-up with an oil cooled engine Latter option is much easier engine wise and probably the result will be better and more reliable. But the first one would be more interesting and respectable, IMO. So your call what you want to achieve.

I don't have any first hand experience about the GS1000 but most of the issues should be the same than with GSX1100 engines. Like you expected the oil pressure is really low due to roller crank bearings. You should be able to boost the pressure by some restrictor arrangement so an electric pump isn't mandatory. Then the crank will need welding to whitstand any abuse at higher power level. Forged pistons are highly recommended. And the clutch will need some beefing up for sure.

Thanks Arttu a big learning curve is needed, but it looks like I'm a glutton for punishment, just bought some NOS GS1000 Wiseco pistons so I think that's my mind made up air cooled turbo here we go

[Swirl]

750 oil pump should help as well as restriction for oil pressure 

[Blubber]

@Reinhoud also had a steep learning curve with his gs1000. Its the topic below yours @Swirl

[Swirl]

17 minutes ago, Blubber said:

@Reinhoud also had a steep learning curve with his gs1000. Its the topic below yours @Swirl

I've had a read of that, after getting a bit worried I havent got the skills or access to the machinery Reinhoud has, that's what prompted my post, having chatted with a few of the resident turbo guys over the last 24hrs I'm confident it can be done.

[Paulm]

GS1000 it is then mate,you wont regret going down the turbo route.

[Swirl]

14 minutes ago, Paulm said:

GS1000 it is then mate,you wont regret going down the turbo route.

My bank balance might 

[Blubber]

27 minutes ago, Swirl said:

My bank balance might 

Nah... recent news bulletins / insights have let me to believe it is now good to be negative...that inclused your bank account

[Reinhoud]

On 4/8/2020 at 5:41 PM, Swirl said:

Advice from the turbo gods needed,  never turbo'd a bike before defo not a air cooled dinosaur, bought a GS1000 frame last night for some reason, on a rather handy Q  plate, it's going to be a long term project as I've got a butchered Z1-R build on the go and scratch built 327cui small block chevy trike to finish, so I've got the opportunity to buy a Gs1000 engine with the top end disassembled, question is what's required to turbo a GS1000 engine or do i just throw a B12 in because it's easier. I'm not going for massive HP or boost(queue you will when you've got the turbo bug), will probably be going 1085cc if I can get the pistons, I believe they have a roller bearing crank where the oil pressure is to low for the turbo oil feed, how do I get round that, external electric oil pump? Is it the same principle as building a b12 turbo, forged pistons(low comp ratio) can you use busa pistons or card the wrist pins different, get the block bored, maybe welded crank, external oil pump, gasket set, base gasket to set deck height, ape studs and goodies, oh and 750 internal oil pump, what's best for the first turbo adventure Draw through or blow through, thanks in advance I'm on a steep learning curve.

Low comp forged pistons

Ball bearing turbo, I've got a VF20, seems to be good enough.

GSX1100 carbies, GS1000 are slide carbies

GSX1100 clutch basket, you have to take about 7 or 8 mm of to make it fit in a GScrankcase

Use GS750 oil pump gears to get more revs, not sure what width the GS1000 oil pump is, if it's 10mm, there is a 14mm oil pump what fits

I build mechanical oil pumps for turbo feed and drain.

If you go electric scavenge you probably need a stator/dynamo what has more output then the stock one

Welded crank is a must, and don't go over 180hp, it should be alright till about that, if you want more you need stronger rods (I've got 493 Katana)

Twin spark works wonders preventing detonation I noticed, reasonably easy to do yourself if you have a mill available, but you need 4 x 1.5 Ohm coils and Dyna 2000 ignition, with the ignition set at the stock setting till at least 7 psi no detonation

If you keep the stock bore the stock head gasket will do I guess, if you go big bore the Cometic fibre ones will do. Don't try f#ck around with copper ones

Weld second gear of the gearbox

I was told that if you stay below somewhere about 180 crank HP, the internals should be able to handle it

Edited April 9, 2020 by Reinhoud

[Reinhoud]

On 4/8/2020 at 6:30 PM, clivegto said:

You need to use 1127 or b12 liners but I belive they come through the block after boring, oil leakage is a problem. 

Yeah, but easy to fix, take an artist brush and liquid gasket, and smear it around the liners.

[Swirl]

20 minutes ago, Reinhoud said:

Low comp forged pistons

Ball bearing turbo, I've got a VF20, seems to be good enough.

GSX1100 carbies, GS1000 are slide carbies

GSX1100 clutch basket, you have to take about 7 or 8 mm of to make it fit in a GScrankcase

Use GS750 oil pump gears to get more revs, not sure what width the GS1000 oil pump is, if it's 10mm, there is a 14mm oil pump what fits

I build mechanical oil pumps for turbo feed and drain.

If you go electric scavenge you probably need a stator/dynamo what has more output then the stock one

Welded crank is a must, and don't go over 180hp, it should be alright till about that, if you want more you need stronger rods (I've got 493 Katana)

Twin spark works wonders preventing detonation I noticed, reasonably easy to do yourself if you have a mill available, but you need 4 x 1.5 Ohm coils and Dyna 2000 ignition, with the ignition set at the stock setting till at least 7 psi no detonation

If you keep the stock bore the stock head gasket will do I guess, if you go big bore the Cometic fibre ones will do. Don't try f#ck around with copper ones

Weld second gear of the gearbox

I was told that if you stay below somewhere about 180 crank HP, the internals should be able to handle it

That's ace cheers Reinhoud, first job will be strip the engine, get the crank, gearbox and clutch sorted and go from there I think 

[Reinhoud]

I forgot something, plenum needs to be at least 2 times the displacement of the engine

[Reinhoud]

You also can raise the oil pressure a little by making a restrictor in the oil way towards the gearbox, under the oil pressure light pick up cover

[Reinhoud]

HD studs is also recomended, 12.9 bolts around the crank on the bottom of the crankcase.

 

[Swirl]

All good info, thanks. Waiting for this lockdown to be lifted to go collecting parts 

[Reinhoud]

When you use HD studs you don't have to use top end oiler, you can drill up the hole in the cylinder block and the head partly, 1.5 bigger is sufficient according to my calculations

[Reinhoud]

A head from a GS1000G is a good option, these bikes have the 34mm CV carbies from factory

[Swirl]

16 minutes ago, Reinhoud said:

A head from a GS1000G is a good option, these bikes have the 34mm CV carbies from factory

I will have look into this, as the engines in bits, so head swapping is not a problem

[Swirl]

28 minutes ago, Reinhoud said:

A head from a GS1000G is a good option, these bikes have the 34mm CV carbies from factory

Just read this elsewhere a GS1000 big valve head on later motors