gsx1428 streetable?

[boilerdude]

Just one more question on this subject. It would actually be better to use 1127 sleeves would it not? to fit them in the efe block easier? or even slabby sleeves? Or are the thicker bandit sleeves better on account of all the extra stroke or some other reason. 

[kiwi]

Bandit 1200 sleeves would be best as more meat in liners 

[Gixer1460]

I really don't believe any of the std 1127 / 1157 liners will bore out to 83mm - way to thin.

[kiwi]

On 9/25/2017 at 11:22 PM, boilerdude said:

You need to shorten EFE cylinder block 2,5 mm to get zero deck with Busa pistons. Front cam chain guide needs to shorten 2,5mm from the top.

And i think you'll find 2.3mm is correct amount to remove if going this route.

[boilerdude]

5 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

I really don't believe any of the std 1127 / 1157 liners will bore out to 83mm - way to thin.

we're talking busa pistons now. Nevermind 1428. 1360.

[jacktar01]

I remember an Aussie Chap on the old site having a set up that some old engineering mate of his was regularily buiding using standard heads, 1100 gsxr sleeves(bored to take Mk 1 Busa piston, are the small ends the same size ?) into EFE Barrels, think he bored the cases and added a thicker base gasket and after being told it shouldn't work, he showed all the pics and the calculations and other stuff his mate was building into EFE's  like auto box and 1500cc........Or is dementia kicking in...definitely an Aussie though

Edited November 9, 2017 by jacktar01
update

[boilerdude]

After seeing how much torque these make even at 150hp I am facing difficult decisions (this big build or turbo oil cooled). And I see now why people like to ask me if I want to sell this motor.

[Gammaboy]

Jacktar, you're talking about Joe Marshal. He's also built 1800cc gsx motors with Gemini or Camira pistons - which, I have to say, are a poor choice if you want to rev it over 6 or 7,000rpm.

2.3 might be right for Mk1 Busa slugs, but M2 slugs (18mm pin) need more like 3.2mm off the block.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Gammaboy

[boilerdude]

well that would mean you're using gen 2 busa rods as well would it not?

efe has same small end as 1st gen busa yes?

Edited November 10, 2017 by boilerdude

[Gammaboy]

2 hours ago, boilerdude said:

well that would mean you're using gen 2 busa rods as well would it not?

efe has same small end as 1st gen busa yes?

Efe, oil cooled GSXR and Mk1 Busa is a 20mm pin, non Efe GSX and Mk2 Busa are a 18mm pin.

[Gixer1460]

7 hours ago, boilerdude said:

well that would mean you're using gen 2 busa rods as well would it not?

efe has same small end as 1st gen busa yes?

WTF are you talking about ? ? ?  Thread title is about 1428 GSX with questions about stock liners which won't work, then start talking about Busa pistons which don't achieve that capacity. Now you are wanting to swop a shell bearing rod on to a roller bearing crank ! ! ! No wonder you had such a f**kin drama fitting a rear wheel ! 

[no class]

Here here !!!  

[boilerdude]

No... I'm not wanting to do any of those things... Just asking questions... Calm your tits big fella. 

After figuring out that 1428 is not possible with stock block the conversation took a slight turn towards the 1360 subject with hayabusa pistons. I didn't think it needed a whole new thread... Some people have been able to stay on board with the conversation just fine. 

[boilerdude]

Now you are wanting to swop a shell bearing rod on to a roller bearing crank ! ! !

Yea cuz I'm supposed to just know all that shit already... Not allowed to ask questions or what. Jesus christ

I was just wondering why 2nd gen busa pistons were even brought into this conversation at all... Getting my facts straight... Learning. Because I dont know everything. 

Not every question I ask is to be taken as an actual intent to carry out a procedure. Sometimes they're just questions... 

now I know dual shock gsx have 18mm pin while EFE has 20mm pin. And also I just now learned that a second gen busa has different rod bearings...

Edited November 10, 2017 by boilerdude

[boilerdude]

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Posted September 24

The oiler engines are better bases for turbo abuse! A GSX will need a decent welded crank or it will twist with the high torque available at lower rpm's. Also the oil system - weak for NA is suspect for turbo use without work. Not many forged pistons as OEM fitment - Busa in a GSX will work and give a super torquey 1428 monster LOL! Deffo use forged pistons - cheaper in long run! Programmable ignition is a bonus as retard on boost stops things going bang or melting!

 

Busa pistons make 1360 not 1428. The confusion is your fault to begin with... So then... All due respect WE ALL GET THINGS WRONG FROM TIME TO TIME.  hypocrite... all you other pot kettle hypocrite dickheads.

Edited November 10, 2017 by boilerdude

[no class]

Aaaaaaaahhhhh shut up already 

[nlovien]

if heat is your concern in a N/A  air cooled motor you can do a lot about this ( whilst also using the heat produced as a measure of how good your tuner is) but this is not a parts build approach - this is the stuff of very knowledgeable engine tuners for folks with big enough wallets to pay for it

you'll also be heading more towards rpm - HP versus mid range torque - for sure 1400cc is going to give you plenty torque regardless 

your needing to be looking at the things that affect the MEP versus compression only

one of the key area's is to aim for a faster burn - enabling less ignition - thats the stuff of combustion chamber shape - more squish pad area and inducing tumble versus swirl - part piston crown to valve / port 

then - if you get your port shape right - not only do you get more useful flow - all that lovely cold air helps with the heat

you can improve the ability to lose heat with lots of holes and dimples added to the head / barrels - improve the oiling to the piston skirt - improve the oil scavenging and supply to a cooler ( suzuki master stroke with the oiler gsxr's)

change your valve seats / valves - a lot of heat is dissipated through the valve seat

get rid of friction - sort of thing here is not yir typical cold bore, get some compression plates and hot oil bore the block true at running condition versus cold

some examples but as said, this is top tuner guru stuff and it costs - I only wish to have the knowledge to do stuff like this

otherwise I would be looking at the sump / oil pump and overall oil supply with an aim to going large - and i'd be studying the oiler gsxr for guidance - i.e. aim to retro engineer what suzuki did as evolution and give the head to someone with track record to work their magic

[nlovien]

option 2 answer - its a great question because the answer lies with the evolution in design of the high performance engine from the days of 2 valve heads to 4 valve - what effect this had on the angle of dangle of the valves - what effect this has on the combustion chamber shape and hence forth what effect this has on cam and ignition timing

the answer lies in taking a very detailed look at a modern combustion chamber and note what's different ( the water cooled bit is not the answer ) - then paying someone to retro engineer the modern design into the old one - ouch $$$$$

[boilerdude]

That is all excellent food for thought. Good porting and combustion chamber shape is important not only to feed big motor but also for to keep it cool and stuff. Keeping the intake sufficiently cool all the way in until ignition.

But nah I'm just gonna bolt up a bandit oil cooler and gs750 pump gears. That'll probably be enough. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by boilerdude

[nlovien]

also works for turbo's - not done a bike but did have a bit of fun with  4 wheeled things - used to measure EGT along with AFR / knock etc.. - playing with std cams but altering timing and overlap + ignition + AFR = all these can significantly impact the EGT - both ways  - ok EGT is not always directly linked to combustion temp - point is playing with timing and fuel ratio will impact the temp - and its relatively free to you except for time

if your serious about this - going for a programmable FI system could provide you a nice answer at a flick of a switch map 1 for performance and map 2 for shopping

ps get a heat gun from e-bay for a few bucks - very handy tool for finding a cylinder thats not working right without burning yir pinkies on the headers

[boilerdude]

hand method aint that bad. Trick is be really really fast.

[bigyellowthing]

Build it, ride it living proof that most preconceptions are bobbins.

You guys are engineering genius.

[Havoc]

Yup, definitely Streetable

188 mile autumn hoon to wish Loopie a happy birthday  

[Havoc]

And a 'Speed awareness course', bugger...

[boilerdude]

whoops