HUC cafe racer frame

[Neill666]

Turned up a Huc 'Savage' Cafe racer frame lurking unloved in a shed and possibly a gsx750f donor bike anyone else done one of these and any known problems like are they weak at the headstock , swinging arm spindle etc etc coz it looks a bit spindly few other bits with it and I'm tempted but I have heard conflicting stories about the hardtail frames they do

 any advice greatly appreciated 

[bluedog59]

They do look a little weedy around the s/arm pivot but nothing that couldn't be fixed. Is it just a frame ?

I had a problem on a mate's chop frame, headstock bearing housing bored too small, Butler's solution ? Dremmel it out !  Needless to say I made a sleeve and used a smaller bearing.

On the other hand, I see ones that went together fine.

Give it a good look over but  ( just about ) everything is fixable.

[Neill666]

Cheers bluedog will hopefully get a good nose at it this afternoon

[MeanBean49]

Built a couple of bikes using savage frames. I put bracing in around headstock but more for somewhere to mount coils than strength. Nothing wrong with swingarm mounts. They arent going yo move, strength is there is across the frane through swingarm.

 

[bluedog59]

The s/arm pivot may be adequate but, as I said, it looks weedy. Nothing a little simple remedial work couldn't sort in both areas. The basic frames that HUC produce are ok, it's just the quality is a little hit and miss and their main selling point is price. 

[Neill666]

Won't get a proper look at the frame till Tuesday evening but after seeing these two I'm getting more into the idea all I need to do now is get all the cash together :-)

[fatblokeonbandit]

Do they still give the same advice concerning registration and frame numbers??  

Couple years ago i was working with a bloke wanting to build one of there wormburnt chopper thingy, he rang and asked about SVA and making it legal and the advice was " Dont bother with all that, just copy the frame number from another bike and no one will know"  Yes I know a lot of people do that , bits its totally illegal and they really shouldn't be telling potential customers that

[MeanBean49]

Its not illegal at all. You can re-frame a bike with a frame of the same type of construction. A steel cradle frame is the same as a bandit so your allowed to transfer numbers over, same as if you damaged your frame and got a replacement.

Use good insurance company like Adrian Flux "bikesure" they are more than happy to insure them if you tell em you have swapped the standard frame.

[fatblokeonbandit]

When  I went to the DVLA to try and retain a reg number I was told that the frame had to be the original or a new frame of the exact same  specification as the original,  he said if i couldnt prove that it would get a q plate after testing.

[stockcar]

If it was legal to just blindly 'billy stamper' it then we'd all be riding around on knock offs........

[MeanBean49]

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

 

A new frame of the same specification,  you can keep existing reg. Just need to use 2 major components of the origional vehicle. Engine and gearbox. Done

[MeanBean49]

13 hours ago, fatblokeonbandit said:

When  I went to the DVLA to try and retain a reg number I was told that the frame had to be the original or a new frame of the exact same  specification as the original,  he said if i couldnt prove that it would get a q plate after testing.

Why would you need anyvtesting after doing it? Just build it and MOT it. No requirement to do anything else

[fatblokeonbandit]

As I didn't know the original reg number they wouldn't tell me what it was or issue a replacement V5 until they had inspected the complete bike to check the vin number was unaltered and was attached to the original frame or a direct original manufacturers replacement . I had to take it to the DVLA centre in Bristol, this was in 2013 before they closed that one down.

Also it had to comprise of 2 major elements or the original bike  ( engine, wheels, forks, suspension)  before allowing the reg number to be used, If I couldn't  prove this it would have been issued a Q plate, in hind site I should have found this out before building the bike and got a frame with a reg number,

[Neill666]

I've got two options the frame comes with a bandit 1200 v5 but I'm gonna be using a gsx750f donor bike with v5 as he's keeping the 1200 motor so am I better to leave it on the 1200 v5 and just change the engine size as its a cradle frame or can I get away with using the numbers on the 750f ..... might just be easier building the 750m frame have in the attic :-) :-) 

[SiBag]

18 hours ago, fatblokeonbandit said:

Do they still give the same advice concerning registration and frame numbers??  

Couple years ago i was working with a bloke wanting to build one of there wormburnt chopper thingy, he rang and asked about SVA and making it legal and the advice was " Dont bother with all that, just copy the frame number from another bike and no one will know"  Yes I know a lot of people do that , bits its totally illegal and they really shouldn't be telling potential customers that

I nearly bought a Turboed Bandit Savage HUC.  Very nice build, (in green)

But when I checked the reg number the docs still had it listed as a Bandit 1200 in black.

Only takes one clued up copper to see its not a bandit, and then they impound it, and crush it. So long bike.

Needles to say I didn't buy it.

Edited October 24, 2016 by SiBag

[MeanBean49]

Why would they have any justification to take it away and crush it?

Your free to modify your standard bandit frame in pretty much any way you want to. You could pretty much weld a huc frame onto your existing headstock.

As long as your insurance are fully aware of whats been done and are happy tgere no real reason for any issues.

My insurance have a 4 page spec list of my bike and photos from every angle. There happy its a extensively modified bandit.

Issue would be if you were using a kawaski twin in a home made frame and using gsxr details

[dupersunc]

I'm sure VOSA regs , and it's VOSA who are supposed to be responsible for this not the DVLA, say that the main hoop of the frame has to be original, but you can modify the seat rails or mono shock a frame. Re making a frame around an existing headstock, or new numbers on a replacement frame from a different manufacturer are a big no no.

Unlikely to get a frame crushed, but the DVLA can withdraw your log book.  Plenty of people  get away with it, and we're all big boys on here, but understand the law and then chose whether to accept the risks. Especially if you're selling these bikes on. 

Oh and make sure you have a friendly MOT tester.

It is a stupid grey area though.  Take a 90's Spondon for example, built before these rules were introduced, so has grandfather rights so could almost legitimately be running round registered as 1200 bandit or gsx1100. There's no record of when such bikes were re framed or modified, but I believe if there's doubt VOSA. can ask for photos or evidence of when the bike was converted.  Good luck fighting with VoSA or the DVLA on this, half the time they don't know there own rules.

Happy to be corrected on any of this if you can point me towards the relative documents.

[MeanBean49]

Exactly. Its such a grey area and there own guidelines contradict themselves. I keep all my donor frames just in case there is any issue. My insurance are happy enough and if there ever was any issue the likely outcome is you will be told to get an SVA done. If your not trying to hide anything then theres no real issue.

The SVA guide woukd seem to suggest that even hacking off a subframe is a chassis modification and requires an SVA test, how many oil cooled gsxr's have been running round like this for years, and with front and rear end swaps so they dont actually have 2 major components from the origional bike? The same situation here.

[bluedog59]

I think if you really delve into regs, modification of suspension mounting points away from standard ( twin shock to mono ) technically requires inspection more than an MOT.

I've never heard of anybody being busted for it but it pays to be aware.

[SiBag]

Maybe its just me been paranoid....

My Harris is registered off the original donor bike, but that only says Suzuki and the cc, no model number.

[busa ash]

i have a gs750 modified frame R reg 1977   and it has a gsxr 1000 motor in it , i was advised by the vosa guy i went to have an informal chat with that the INSURANCE has to be right on a special /modified frame build , so i have it on agreed value all items of the build are listed every part , 4 pages of a4 with 4 photos .

adrian flux bike sure fully comp .

Vosa guy said  Question . is it registered and did i have a logbook . Answer yes and that number is on the frame (not re stamped , original headstock )

if you tell dvla its been altered they will take the registration away , then its sva route (so i didnt ) 

he also said if a traffic policeman / clued up cop pulled up the first thing they say is are your insurance aware of the modifications exhaust ect ? they know your insured before they stop you these days 

 

[Dezza]

I think all the potential pitfalls described above is why Q plates (should) exist. Shame the crooks of the 90s ruined the reputation for those who have legitimate bikes on Q plates. I could only find one insurer for my Q bike and it wasn't Adrian Flux, who refused to insure it even though it's been on the same plate for nearly 30 years - cunts.

A legitimate Q plate is above board but e.g. a Harris Magnum 2 with a GSXR 1100 engine on a T plate isn't. The 2 frame didn't come out until 1982 and GSXr 1100 motors didn't exist until 1986 but guess which one is easier to insure?

[MeanBean49]

I had my Q plate Harris insured with Adrian Flux no probs

[dupersunc]

45 minutes ago, Dezza said:

I think all the potential pitfalls described above is why Q plates (should) exist. Shame the crooks of the 90s ruined the reputation for those who have legitimate bikes on Q plates. I could only find one insurer for my Q bike and it wasn't Adrian Flux, who refused to insure it even though it's been on the same plate for nearly 30 years - cunts.

A legitimate Q plate is above board but e.g. a Harris Magnum 2 with a GSXR 1100 engine on a T plate isn't. The 2 frame didn't come out until 1982 and GSXr 1100 motors didn't exist until 1986 but guess which one is easier to insure?

I disagree with that. In 82 it was acceptable to reframe a GS1000 with a Harris frame, and assume it's Id. Like the same bike could of been legitimately been converted to a GSXR1100 engine in the early 90s. The bikes been legal for 30 years, it's still legal now.

The q plate is a different kettle of fish to this discussion. Not all bike that need an MSVA will get a Q plate.

[1100fred]

I have a huc frame sat in my garage and thought the. Swing arm pivot could do with a bit of improvement would extending the plates  a lot like the Norton frame be a good way of going with this or is there another solution one of the reasons I ask is that I've never read anything about how they actually ride or handle