Spondon Turbo Performance Bikes Mag 1986.

[imago]

I came across this article about Steve Burns' Spondon Turbo and thought it may be of interest. The astounding 169 hp made me chuckle, how things have moved on.

[DAZ]

A nice glimpse into the past and a bike (and rider) many thought were the dogs wotsits at the time, but it shows how time moves on relentlessly  and how the likes of FBM and others have made turbos more accessible as well as more powerful 

[imago]

1 hour ago, DAZ said:

A nice glimpse into the past and a bike (and rider) many thought were the dogs wotsits at the time, but it shows how time moves on relentlessly  and how the likes of FBM and others have made turbos more accessible as well as more powerful 

Yup, @Wee Man's bike has 100 hp more than what was as you say top drawer stuff back in the day.

[clivegto]

I've heard he managed to buy it back and is now in Australia with him as well as the monster build. 

[Duckndive]

Given it was on a Rajay, Tractor Carb, 4star its still a good no..

Wee Mans is also a Blow thru oil boiler so not a direct comparison  

You also need to ride a DrawThru to appreciate the adrenalin rush when it boosts is unlike anything else  

 

 

[Gixer1460]

4 minutes ago, Duckndive said:

You also need to ride a DrawThru to appreciate the adrenalin rush when it boosts is unlike anything else  

Just look how the power climbs - little bit faster than the front wheel heading skywards!

[Dezza]

I saw this bike (rebuilt version; white Marvics, different seat and paint) up close and with him doing 150mph wheelies on it at Bruntingthorpe (1988). Shortly after it was comprehensively totalled when he flipped it at Aintree during a wheelie demonstration. It must have been a different bike he took to Strylia (beam frame monster Spondon??).

[DAZ]

2 hours ago, Dezza said:

I saw this bike (rebuilt version; white Marvics, different seat and paint) up close and with him doing 150mph wheelies on it at Bruntingthorpe (1988). Shortly after it was comprehensively totalled when he flipped it at Aintree during a wheelie demonstration. It must have been a different bike he took to Strylia (beam frame monster Spondon??).

Triggers broom......

[clivegto]

4 hours ago, Dezza said:

I saw this bike (rebuilt version; white Marvics, different seat and paint) up close and with him doing 150mph wheelies on it at Bruntingthorpe (1988). Shortly after it was comprehensively totalled when he flipped it at Aintree during a wheelie demonstration. It must have been a different bike he took to Strylia (beam frame monster Spondon??).

After he flipped it it was rebuilt and lived in Barrow-in-Furness I belive where Steve bought it back from the bloke that owed it at the time. 

[imago]

11 hours ago, Duckndive said:

Given it was on a Rajay, Tractor Carb, 4star its still a good no..

Wee Mans is also a Blow thru oil boiler so not a direct comparison  

You also need to ride a DrawThru to appreciate the adrenalin rush when it boosts is unlike anything else  

 

 

That's my point really, look at what's available off the shelf now compared to back then. Blow through turbos which work, electronic control which is adjustable with a laptop, injection, carbs designed for the job, eve small changes in materials technology that mean the difference between pistons then and now are night and day. You can even walk into a dealership and ride out on a bike with 200+ hp, map it and have an instant 25-50% increase.

It's a very different world and as always some for the better and some for the worse.

As for me needing to ride a draw through, well yes, yes I do.  Shouldn't be too long now hopefully and I've given my wife the log in details for here so that if I end up strewn across the countryside all the salvage and spares will go to good homes. 

[Dezza]

1 hour ago, imago said:

That's my point really, look at what's available off the shelf now compared to back then. Blow through turbos which work, electronic control which is adjustable with a laptop, injection, carbs designed for the job, eve small changes in materials technology that mean the difference between pistons then and now are night and day. You can even walk into a dealership and ride out on a bike with 200+ hp, map it and have an instant 25-50% increase.

It's a very different world and as always some for the better and some for the worse.

As for me needing to ride a draw through, well yes, yes I do.  Shouldn't be too long now hopefully and I've given my wife the log in details for here so that if I end up strewn across the countryside all the salvage and spares will go to good homes. 

I'd much prefer that Spondon to any new 200bhp out-of-the-box 20 grand plus bike that looks the same as all the other 20 grand 200bhp out-of-the-box bikes, even if it had a stock GSX1100 engine in it

[imago]

39 minutes ago, Dezza said:

I'd much prefer that Spondon to any new 200bhp out-of-the-box 20 grand plus bike that looks the same as all the other 20 grand 200bhp out-of-the-box bikes, even if it had a stock GSX1100 engine in it

Agreed, it's why we're al here and it proves that power is of secondary consideration with what we like/build. If it was the first consideration we'd all be running 'busa engined monsters.

But, it was nigh on impossible to build a 200 hp bike in the '80s beyond a proper drag bike that needed rebuilding every five minutes let alone buy one. Things have moved on, we've take some benefit from it but not tried to stay at the cutting edge. My throwback build for example is a draw through as per the '80s, but it will have a roller bearing turbo with carbon seals. Old build, new tech, better/faster/more powerful than back in the day but none the less far less than could be achieved with a modern bike.

[Duckndive]

2 hours ago, imago said:

turbo with carbon seals. 

Draw Thru's have always used a Carbon Sealed Whizzer that's why the Rajay was so popular along with the fact they dont need much oil pressure 

200bhp was / is possible with a Rajay....you just put a big spring in the gate and hang on  

[imago]

1 hour ago, Duckndive said:

Draw Thru's have always used a Carbon Sealed Whizzer that's why the Rajay was so popular along with the fact they dont need much oil pressure 

200bhp was / is possible with a Rajay....you just put a big spring in the gate and hang on  

Yeah, carbon seals and a plain bearing which wasn't so happy with low oil pressure which is why they didn't last very long on the road. 

[Dezza]

They do look a more elegant set-up than the newer units, located behind the cylinder head rather than behind the front wheel though.

[Duckndive]

17 hours ago, imago said:

Yeah, carbon seals and a plain bearing which wasn't so happy with low oil pressure which is why they didn't last very long on the road. 

Not the roman candles you seam to think they are  ....

I,ve ran two road bikes with them with no issues as have many others 

[imago]

11 minutes ago, Duckndive said:

Not the roman candles you seam to think they are  ....

I,ve ran two road bikes with them with no issues as have many others 

I'm not saying they're bad, just that roller bearings are better in terms of longevity and reliability over greater mileage. I don't think anyone can argue against the longer life of a roller bearing, particularly with lower oil pressure.

It's the same comparison as that between cast and forged pistons. There are plenty of cast piston turbo bikes running around, but they can't take as much boost and/or timing advance as forged, and they won't do the same mileage.

You work with what's available, in the '80s that was plain bearing turbos and they worked. Now there's to option of roller bearing turbos which last way longer under the same conditions. So if you're building a turbo engine for prolonged road use, and in this case one with comparatively low oil pressure available, it'd be a poor decision to go with the lesser design.

[Duckndive]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:05 AM, imago said:

I'm not saying they're bad, just that roller bearings are better in terms of longevity and reliability over greater mileage. I don't think anyone can argue against the longer life of a roller bearing, particularly with lower oil pressure.

It's the same comparison as that between cast and forged pistons. There are plenty of cast piston turbo bikes running around, but they can't take as much boost and/or timing advance as forged, and they won't do the same mileage.

You work with what's available, in the '80s that was plain bearing turbos and they worked. Now there's to option of roller bearing turbos which last way longer under the same conditions. So if you're building a turbo engine for prolonged road use, and in this case one with comparatively low oil pressure available, it'd be a poor decision to go with the lesser design.

Agreed but you original post eluded "chuckle" to the Low HP figure  of the set up...

which as I said was good for what it was   Bill actually skimmed over "laughed off" the low / poor ETs he ran "I,m ok with it" 

The Limiting factor was actually the frame "could not fit a lock up which held back the power" also an issue with later CoAx "speeling" Spondon frames 

The Bike was a year or two later reconfigured raked and lowered "the brick rule now being in place" new Spondon arm with slots and they managed to gain enough room to fit a lock up and spacer .. viola 220 / 240 ish bhp with same set up and mid 9,s he then bought an Ali "beam" frame which was specially built at the rear to have room for the lock up & Spacer .Given Bob was stubborn that was a miracle  ..i,m sure there are pics on here some ware of both  

I actually lost track of USB in 87 ish marriage kids sold USB bike etc....but did attend the Long Marston rounds as on my doorstep

It got very Bitchy towards the End but many went on to be successful in SSB and other classes ..and one or two still have there original USB bikes ..there is a group on faceache that occasionally gets updated     

[imago]

18 minutes ago, Duckndive said:

Agreed but you original post eluded "chuckle" to the Low HP figure  of the set up...

I did chuckle, and I still do at how excited/hysterical whoever wrote the article were at the HP produced. Good for the day, but if that's what you got out of a litre plus engine after fitting a turbo now you'd be well upset.

Which goes to the wider point of how much things have moved on. 100 hp more for a comparative spend on a turbo now, or use a GSXR/R1/Blade/Busa ... and have more than that without doing a thing.

The impressive thing (to me at least) about bikes back then was the way they were built and the parts/materials that they used to achieve what they did.

[Rsvfletch]

That frame and paint still looks epic though 

[Duckndive]

34 minutes ago, imago said:

I did chuckle, and I still do at how excited/hysterical whoever wrote the article were at the HP produced. Good for the day, but if that's what you got out of a litre plus engine after fitting a turbo now you'd be well upset.

if you look i have explained the reason for the low fig   

Use a modern BB snail on the same motor at 10PSI ..200 on a good day with a lock up 

[Duckndive]

Ok real world comparison my 1166 EFE forged pistons welded crank lock up proper built motor . Garrett T3  "external gate" Tractor Carb "HSR is no better in BHP stakes" 

this was a quick favour Tim Blakemore did for me to check the fuelling with a 6PSI spring  159BHP with top end blips on the curve "later traced to a split Dyna Coil once home"  we only did the one run due to time and not wanting to take up Tims Dyno Time messing about with it ...

So 10 down on the Rajay   

Once i had it sorted it made 175 at same boost....so a huge 5 bean better 

 

 

 

[clivegto]

5 hours ago, Duckndive said:

 

The Limiting factor was actually the frame "could not fit a lock up which held back the power" also an issue with later CoAx "speeling" Spondon frames 

The Bike was a year or two later reconfigured raked and lowered "the brick rule now being in place" new Spondon arm with slots and they managed to gain enough room to fit a lock up and spacer .       

 Do you know how they got a spacer in for the lock-up clutch, perhaps they moved the engine a bit in the frame ? 

[Gixer1460]

1 hour ago, clivegto said:

 Do you know how they got a spacer in for the lock-up clutch, perhaps they moved the engine a bit in the frame ? 

A m8 with a mag4, similar problem - ended up cutting the offending tube out and remaking it with space!

[clivegto]

37 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

A m8 with a mag4, similar problem - ended up cutting the offending tube out and remaking it with space!

Yes I've seen that build, might be a bit tricky with this one