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Max overbore on oil cooled engines


Smifee

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Posted

Whats the max overbores on oil cooled barrels.

Guessing the bandit 1200 are best barrels?

Is 1216 the biggest you can get with stock liners?

Is it much work to have bigger liners fitted? 

Posted

I believe you can get a 1246 kit for b12 barrels as the liners are slightly thicker than the 1127 version can't help on the cost of big liners but don't forget the crankcase will need machining to suit the bigger cylinder spigot and possibly external oil lines too if the machining causes issues with the oiling system

  • Like 2
Posted
1 hour ago, DAZ said:

I believe you can get a 1246 kit for b12 barrels as the liners are slightly thicker than the 1127 version can't help on the cost of big liners but don't forget the crankcase will need machining to suit the bigger cylinder spigot and possibly external oil lines too if the machining causes issues with the oiling system

Yes you can indeed "well used to not checked recently" how ever even in a B12 block you end up with thin liners.....

1340 is doable with either thicker liners or a big block "getting scarce"  having rode a 1340 it does make a nice grunty road bike 

  • Like 2
Posted

I thought that 1371 was the biggest of the overbores before stroking to get capacity increase? Isn't it 86mm bore in a big block - the APE ones were nicest but very rare now!

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Crank cases don't always need opening out for bigger liners the bottom of the liners can also be reduced to fit the crank cases like these 1277cc ones.IMG_20230410_074400.thumb.jpg.ff2ba907fe4985d958ebd304cf668d92.jpg

Edited by clivegto
  • Like 8
  • 5 weeks later...
Posted
On 4/9/2023 at 6:56 AM, Gixer1460 said:

I thought that 1371 was the biggest of the overbores before stroking to get capacity increase? Isn't it 86mm bore in a big block - the APE ones were nicest but very rare now!

I have APE 85mm Gorilla block.  Wasn't aware they made an 86mm.  Liners got to be getting pretty thin I would think at 86mm.  

Posted
1 hour ago, TiZiK said:

I have APE 85mm Gorilla block.  Wasn't aware they made an 86mm.  Liners got to be getting pretty thin I would think at 86mm.  

Quote from APE webpage (later Blandit included for info) :

Quote

 

GSXR1100

DISP

BORE

COMP

PART#

MFG

NOTES

PRICE

GSXR1100 1989-1992

(1127cc 4 valve)

GSX1100F Katana

(1988-1989(

Bandit 1200

(1997-2004)

1186cc

80MM

12:1

R1186

WIS

Cylinder boring only

769.71

1216cc

81MM

12:1

R1216

WIS

Includes head gasket. Cylinder boring only. Maximum bore with stock sleeves.

769.71

1216cc

81MM

13.5:1

127642

JE.

Cylinder boring only. Maximum bore with stock sleeves.

746.69

1277cc

83MM

13.5:1

127643

JE.

Uses SU3450SP sleeves.

678.84

1277cc

83MM

15:1

132495

JE

Uses SU3450SP sleeves.

DISCONTINUED

1340cc

85MM

13.5:1

127644

JE.

Uses SU3550SP sleeves

678.84

1340cc

85MM

15:1

130894

JE.

Uses SU3550SP sleeves

678.84

1371cc

86MM

13.5:1

127645

JE.

Uses SU3550SP sleeves

746.69

 

GSXR1100w

DISP

BORE

COMP

PART#

MFG

NOTES

PRICE

1993-1998

1117cc

77MM

12.3:1

131367

JE.

Cylinder boring only

746.69

1146cc

78MM

12:1

155930

JE.

Cylinder boring only

651.22

1195cc

79.5MM

13:1

129682

JE.

Big bore sleeves required Includes head gasket

746.69

 

GSF1200SX BANDIT

DISP

BORE

COMP

PART#

MFG

NOTES

PRICE

1996-2006

1117cc

77MM

12.3:1

131367

JE.

Cylinder boring only

746.69

1146cc

78MM

12:1

155930

JE.

Cylinder boring only

746.69

1195cc

79.5MM

13:1

129682

JE.

Big bore sleeves required Includes head gasket

746.69

 

  • Like 2
  • 1 year later...
Posted
36 minutes ago, DTubeMan said:

Anybody know if the overhead cooling seen in DucknDive's picture needs any adjustment on the internals of the valvecover?

It just bolts up but whether it does anything is up for debate. Really the feed needs to be taken from the oil gallery under the ignition pick up... Or so the argument goes. 

  • Like 4
Posted
11 hours ago, DTubeMan said:

Anybody know if the overhead cooling seen in DucknDive's picture needs any adjustment on the internals of the valvecover?

 

CAMFEEDS.thumb.jpg.3beae17a4efcbf11c6ff1df835cc7639.jpg

Was on engine when i got it

The pipe from cam cover has Since Removed and just has the cam links on it........

The Feed from cam cover is a leak and pointless   :stop:

"take a cam cover off and look" opens box of frogs 

  • Like 2
Posted

Great! Appreciate your guys input and feedback! I had a look at the internals of the cam cover and noticed you’d be taking the left over oil pressure after dumping into the oil cooling pockets above the cylinders. And figured there wouldn’t be much pressure left.

The way you’ve got it hooked up now @Duckndivei imagine it’s just for looks, as the Orient cylinder doesn’t have oil galleys, or does it? So the lines probably don’t have any oil going through them? 

@spiderpigthats a good one actually, hadn’t thought about it, but that’s gotta have the higher oil pressure needed! Gonna go this route I think, much appreciated!

For anyone curious, I’m making a sleeper gsx1100F 1340cc. With the big Krauser suitcases and everything

  • Like 2
Posted

It’s got a gsxR rear wheel, still getting the front wheel fitted with the larger brake rotors. And a techserfu full titanium exhaust. Some other goodies on the way. I’ll keep you guys posted 

Posted

On the basis of what can realistically fit. Based on the bore dimensions you could take one out to 89mm with new liners which takes it out to somewhere near 1470cc. It would need to be for race use only though

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, DTubeMan said:

Sheesh! 89mm Bore, how thin is the liner gonna be then? :P

He said 

"Based on the bore dimensions you could take one out to 89mm with new liners which takes it out to somewhere near 1470 cc. It would need to be for race use only though

 

Posted
15 hours ago, McLean Racing said:

On the basis of what can realistically fit. Based on the bore dimensions you could take one out to 89mm with new liners which takes it out to somewhere near 1470cc. It would need to be for race use only though

'If' this was possible . . . . not sayin' it isn't, but If possible, why didn't any US performance shop or supplier ever recommend, or stock or supply such a kit? I know that the GSXR was used long after production ceased in 'grudge / street ' racing where any advantage gained can make big money, but never heard of '1500' oil cooled engines without stroking the cranks?  As an example, using 89mm bore & my crank, would give me a 1600cc and I could still go +1 on the stroke ! ! ! Entertaining but highly impractical . . . . . . . my turbo isn't big enough LOL's :pimp:

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

'If' this was possible . . . . not sayin' it isn't, but If possible, why didn't any US performance shop or supplier ever recommend, or stock or supply such a kit? I know that the GSXR was used long after production ceased in 'grudge / street ' racing where any advantage gained can make big money, but never heard of '1500' oil cooled engines without stroking the cranks?  As an example, using 89mm bore & my crank, would give me a 1600cc and I could still go +1 on the stroke ! ! ! Entertaining but highly impractical . . . . . . . my turbo isn't big enough LOL's :pimp:

most of the big bore kits go up in 1 mm increments

1340 is 85mm / 7mm oversize 

 89mm / 11mm oversize on a stock crank would be  89.59 Cubic in  or 1500cc ..a big jump bore & liner wise 

Not measured my OE block but even with new liners that may give minimal support for the liners ..

so possibly given the limited market they never bothered or considered it but did not want to have a larger block made to facilitate it 

Johns GSX1400 outlaw uses a custom block as does your stroker motor ... 

Remember in the land of the free "pre thump" KISS  rules 9_9

 

OOOHLOOK.thumb.jpg.7457361d4c476d0516f958b2b8cea081.jpg

Edit the crankcases are the limiting factor going bigger than 85 / 86mm Over 

My cases with a 1340 overbore

So if liner o/d increased incrementally with bore per mm stud retention area would get weaker 

The Stock case 1640 cc Air Cooled Pro Stock Motors suffer from this hence V&H doing billet cases 

Stroking the Crank as you did is the better option maybe 

Edited by Duckndive
  • Like 1
Posted

Which is essentially the point, whilst liners 'could' be made to fit the blocks, the crankcases would burst apart! Its a combination that wouldn't work so doesn't fit with the OP question! Just checked - i've still got +1mm of overbore + 1mm of overstroke to go . . . . . mind you it gets expensive !

  • Like 2
Posted

Out of curiosity @Duckndive, what OD size is your sleeve and what size was the cylinder bored out to? I went to my machinist today and he asked me what size the cylinders were to be bored to and I thought it would just be the size of the od of the sleeve. He proceeded to explain that the sleeve could potentially be "swimming" in the cilinder, and not be able to lose the energy. This makes sense of course as the sleeve and cylinder are different metals (expansion rates and what not). I will be going for the 85mm oversize as well. First parts ordered today.

Posted
On 2/3/2025 at 11:53 AM, Gixer1460 said:

'If' this was possible . . . . not sayin' it isn't, but If possible, why didn't any US performance shop or supplier ever recommend, or stock or supply such a kit? I know that the GSXR was used long after production ceased in 'grudge / street ' racing where any advantage gained can make big money, but never heard of '1500' oil cooled engines without stroking the cranks?  As an example, using 89mm bore & my crank, would give me a 1600cc and I could still go +1 on the stroke ! ! ! Entertaining but highly impractical . . . . . . . my turbo isn't big enough LOL's :pimp:

There where some grudge bikes that were that big, most of them needing epoxy work to the cases or welding and machining, I know of 2 of such motors that made there way to the UK and i believe are still here.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, McLean Racing said:

There where some grudge bikes that were that big, most of them needing epoxy work to the cases or welding and machining, I know of 2 of such motors that made there way to the UK and i believe are still here.

Would one have been Dale's old gas motor in the slingshot frame from a about 10 years back 

Dale may have just been the jockey 

Edited by Duckndive

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