How to build more oil pressure when installing a ward top end oiler

[88Katana]

I have installed a ward top end oiler on my drag bike have blocked off oil jet galley on the back of the cases but am having oiling issues any idea's would be appreciated

[Gixer1460]

2 hours ago, 88Katana said:

I have installed a ward top end oiler on my drag bike have blocked off oil jet galley on the back of the cases but am having oiling issues any idea's would be appreciated

Please explain what you've done exactly as what you've said doesn't make sense - assuming this is a GSXR and not a GS / GSX!

[88Katana]

18 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

Please explain what you've done exactly as what you've said doesn't make sense - assuming this is a GSXR and not a GS / GSX!

Yes this is a 90 GSXR motor 1340cc 425 lift intake 380 lift exhaust had the block done at Carolina cycle who told me I needed a top end oiler and would have to remove oil galley jet and plug those holes which I did.upon initial start up had 90psi of oil pressure at the test port APE springs were set to 60lbs of seat pressure, ran the bike minimally in the shop made a couple of test hits and brought it back to the shop to inspect.i took the valve cover off and had knarled up 2intake cam lobes and 2 rockers which were new hard weld from web cam but the exhaust cam and rockers were fine?I'm running brad penn 20/50w oil .

[wraith]

Pictures may help as to how you've ran the external oil lines to the coolers.

Are you still running the external feed from the back of the cylinder block to the head?

[88Katana]

8 minutes ago, wraith said:

Pictures may help as to how you've ran the external oil lines to the coolers.

Are you still running the external feed from the back of the cylinder block to the head?

Yes I am running the lines to the back of the valve cover. This is a drag bike so oil cooler has been deleted,I have the billet crossover block installed on the oil pan. If that helps.

[clivegto]

You neen something like this if you have blocked the oil jets off up the stud holes. Take oil feed off main oil gallery up to the  right hand side of the cams then round the back to the other side. 

[Gixer1460]

If you've blocked the oil jets up the studs where are you sourcing hi pressure oil to feed the cams and cam bearings from?

Edited January 12, 2022 by Gixer1460

[mikeyd]

You need to look at the underside of your valve cover where the oil feeds are going in. Most of them have a weep hole on each end and if the bolts supplied in the kit are not long enough, all the oil will come out of these holes and not reach the cams. You. can just tap and plug them with a short screw.

[Gixer1460]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:50 PM, 88Katana said:

I'm running brad penn 20/50w oil .

Also just noticed this - why ? ? ? It's too thick and not recommended for these engines!

More worrying is I can't find a listing anywhere for a Ward kit made for a GSXR!

[gsxr1385]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:27 AM, Gixer1460 said:

Also just noticed this - why ? ? ? It's too thick and not recommended for these engines!

More worrying is I can't find a listing anywhere for a Ward kit made for a GSXR!

APE Racing still lists them in their on-line store

[Gixer1460]

15 hours ago, gsxr1385 said:

APE Racing still lists them in their on-line store

Not Ward they don't - those are Vortex !

Can't say one thing and mean another when trying to diagnose problems!

[FJD]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:53 PM, mikeyd said:

You need to look at the underside of your valve cover where the oil feeds are going in. Most of them have a weep hole on each end and if the bolts supplied in the kit are not long enough, all the oil will come out of these holes and not reach the cams. You. can just tap and plug them with a short screw.

Can you please post a picture - im very interested.

[gsxr1385]

12 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Not Ward they don't - those are Vortex !

Can't say one thing and mean another when trying to diagnose problems!

Actually Vortex is the brand name and these are made by Ward Performance in Zimmerman Mn US. I purchased a "Vortex" from APE and the banjo bolts were defective. APE sent me to Ward Performance to get replacements.

Perhaps now Ward has ceased making them and sold to someone else who now is supplying to APE, but I assure you those were made by Ward...

[Lachie04]

IDK but seems to be the same issue as this 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TiZiK]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:14 AM, 88Katana said:

I have installed a ward top end oiler on my drag bike have blocked off oil jet galley on the back of the cases but am having oiling issues any idea's would be appreciated

I just finally solved my issue as well.  I'm running an 85mm block and the cases had to have the 2 main galleries feeding the head through the studs blocked. (dry block)  I struggled as well with oiling issues to the top end even tho I fitted a top end oiler which was fed from the main gallery on the right side.

 

The main issue when doing this is you have to also block the original galleries in the head!!  No one ever mentions this when talking about dry blocking.  So, if you look in the holes where the top end oiler connects, at the end of the threads just in front of the rocker shafts you will see the gallery.  Theres one in each hole so 4 in total.  My oil was just draining right back to the block!  5 effing years and 4 sets of cams later for me to find this!  Big thanks to @Maggotbreathfor chiming in on my other thread and offering another perspective to the issue.  He eventually linked another thread (which I actually read a few times but missed the part about blocking the head galleries) and thats the only place I have EVER seen it mentioned.  

Pic shows the hole I'm referencing.  Ideally, You want to drill and tap to block with a grub screw.  It can be done from the bottom via the stud hole.  I am not wanting to pull my engine/head at this time so I epoxied them from the top.  Temporary fix to A) confirm oil pressure and volume to head is now good and B) I'm building up a spare head with larger valves etc.

 

 

[TiZiK]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:50 AM, 88Katana said:

Yes this is a 90 GSXR motor 1340cc 425 lift intake 380 lift exhaust had the block done at Carolina cycle who told me I needed a top end oiler and would have to remove oil galley jet and plug those holes which I did.upon initial start up had 90psi of oil pressure at the test port APE springs were set to 60lbs of seat pressure, ran the bike minimally in the shop made a couple of test hits and brought it back to the shop to inspect.i took the valve cover off and had knarled up 2intake cam lobes and 2 rockers which were new hard weld from web cam but the exhaust cam and rockers were fine?I'm running brad penn 20/50w oil .

 

Same thing that baffled me.  I was seeing good pressure at the main gallery but the head suffered.  Was always lobes and rocker on Cylinder 1 and 2 (furthest away) that got knarled up

[Maggotbreath]

1 hour ago, TiZiK said:

 

Same thing that baffled me.  I was seeing good pressure at the main gallery but the head suffered.  Was always lobes and rocker on Cylinder 1 and 2 (furthest away) that got knarled up

Something else to consider is the removal of the oil jets. The purpose of the jet is to maintain pressure in the main gallery for the bottom end. In that Dry blocking will provide full main galley oil pressure to the head, imho it would be prudent to check main galley oil pressure. Or another way, it may be that full flow and pressure to the head could lower main galley pressure.

[Buzuki]

Important to know is that after oil jet (on each side is one jet) on each side of the cylinder block is one small oil channel which is oil flow connection between the rear cylinder stud and front cylinder stud , that small oil channel need to be perfectly sealed against oil pressure loose , around this studs pressurized oil flows up for oiling and lubrication of cams journals , cams lobes and rockers , 

for top end good oil pressure and lubrication is also very important to use brand new cooper washers on the top of this four cylinder studs ,perfectly flat new cooper washer ensure good oil sealing against aluminium cylinder head body ,

good compromise between main oil gallery pressure for bottom end lubrication and top end oil pressure and lubrication is to use oil jets with a bit bigger bore .

Edited January 28, 2022 by Buzuki