Gixer1460 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, vizman said: i bet the panther owners club are pissing themselves at this..... They only need one gear so clutch isn't an issue LOL! Quote Link to comment
coombehouse Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Cable routing & cable quality are key factors for old stuff but as you say it is a mystery how modern clutches cope. The material looks the same & the design hasn't changed a lot. They have a similar number of plates. Only difference would be the new stuff produces less torque at higher revs. Hopefully a grown-up will be along in a minute to explain it. 1 Quote Link to comment
vizman Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 21 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said: They only need one gear so clutch isn't an issue LOL! plus they're probably not on the interweb.... .....but if they catch wind of it i'm sure it'll be in the 'dear deidre' section of their bi-monthly 1 Quote Link to comment
Duckndive Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, coombehouse said: Cable routing & cable quality are key factors for old stuff but as you say it is a mystery how modern clutches cope. The material looks the same & the design hasn't changed a lot. They have a similar number of plates. Only difference would be the new stuff produces less torque at higher revs. Hopefully a grown-up will be along in a minute to explain it. Less torque and the bikes are half the weight of 80,s stuff .. 1 Quote Link to comment
coombehouse Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Duckndive said: Less torque and the bikes are half the weight of 80,s stuff .. Hadn't thought about weight, good point. Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 My bike is about 45kg lighter than a stock efe (it's 185kg with 3litres of fuel) and it still has a heavy clutch Why would the weight of the bike affect the clutch operation to such an extent as the difference between something like an old aircooled 4 and a modern plastic all revs thingy? Wouldn't the weight difference have to be really extreme? My mate has a Triumph Sprint 1050 which has closer power characteristics to an old aircooled 4 and weighs a ton, and it has a really light, cable operated clutch. This makes me sad Quote Link to comment
coombehouse Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dezza said: My bike is about 45kg lighter than a stock efe (it's 185kg with 3litres of fuel) and it still has a heavy clutch Why would the weight of the bike affect the clutch operation to such an extent as the difference between something like an old aircooled 4 and a modern plastic all revs thingy? Wouldn't the weight difference have to be really extreme? My mate has a Triumph Sprint 1050 which has closer power characteristics to an old aircooled 4 and weighs a ton, and it has a really light, cable operated clutch. This makes me sad The weight of the bike dictates the need for a more heavy duty clutch to get the thing moving. If your bike really does weigh that little then I would suggest some new standard clutch springs & a new cable would make a difference. Quote Link to comment
Duckndive Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dezza said: My bike is about 45kg lighter than a stock efe (it's 185kg with 3litres of fuel) and it still has a heavy clutch Why would the weight of the bike affect the clutch operation to such an extent as the difference between something like an old aircooled 4 and a modern plastic all revs thingy? Wouldn't the weight difference have to be really extreme? My mate has a Triumph Sprint 1050 which has closer power characteristics to an old aircooled 4 and weighs a ton, and it has a really light, cable operated clutch. This makes me sad 185kg with 3 litres of fuel that's some weight loss..."170Kg with out fuel"...given a 2016 GSXR 1000 tips the scales at 204Kg..... tell us the secret to the weight loss...............as I,ve struggled to get mine down to 220Kg even with a lighter engine............... back to the clutch a GSXR 1000 has about 170bhp power is very liner with no spikes and no huge torque fig ..and the stock clutch copes if not abused . it has a nicely engineered smooth cable and run ."wheelies and drag starts soon have it over heating and starting to grab then slip"..... fatty has "lets be generous" 130bhp.....which come,s in far from smooth and a load more torque....the stock clutch copes just about ok with this if in good order .. but poor cable run wrong cable / clutch perch poor adjustment worn clutch hub non stock friction plates / warped steel's and H/D springs... conspire to make its operation heavy..... Edited July 20, 2017 by Duckndive 1 Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) With weight loss, first bin the EFE chassis completely and replace with a Harris magnum 2 frame with alloy swingarm. Change wheels for magnesium. Keep everything to a minimum, alloy tank, no fairing, it all adds up. The EFE exhaust must weigh at least 3 tons. The bike when MOT'd last year was 93/92 kg on the scales front and back. I asked if his scales were OK as I was surprised it was uder 200 and he was insistent. 3 litres of fuel do not weigh 15 kg (less than 3 kg as petrol is less dense than water) but I would be interested to see my bike and a stock efe weighed on the same scales. Stock EFE is supposed to be about 230 I think, and it's definely a porker. I had stock wheels on mine when I got it 30 years ago and they felt as if they were made of lead. This is what it looks like at the moment. Edited July 20, 2017 by Dezza 7 Quote Link to comment
vizman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 ...not really an efe...more an efe powered 'arris 2 Quote Link to comment
Duckndive Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, vizman said: ...not really an efe...more an efe powered 'arris yes ....post edited "I did 3 gallons not Lts" "reading posts on dam phone again" as you say 3 Lts would be 2.22Kg using 0.74g Lt............... Quote Link to comment
vizman Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 46 minutes ago, vizman said: ...not really an efe...more an efe powered 'arris ...missed out 'very' and 'kool'.....more a very kool efe powered 'arris . 1 Quote Link to comment
yoshi Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 i put one of those adjustable levers on my et big improvement yoshi Quote Link to comment
blighty Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Hydraulic clutch conversion is the answer to your problems. Quote Link to comment
CockneyRick Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 On 7/20/2017 at 10:07 AM, coombehouse said: The weight of the bike dictates the need for a more heavy duty clutch to get the thing moving. If your bike really does weigh that little then I would suggest some new standard clutch springs & a new cable would make a difference. My question to this would be, having dumped the HD springs & fitted a new cable in my bigbored Yoshi GS1100E because the clutch was ridiculously heavy, how would weight make any difference? The lever is "Popeye" heavy even if you are sat on it without the engine running, & when it is & moving it's exactly the same Quote Link to comment
Gixer1460 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 What state is the basket and hub in? Excessive ridges / grooving won't help everything trying to slide smoothly - not saying its a fix because even when brand spankers the GSX clutch was a heavy bastard! An adjusted pivot point / lever length will make a difference but has to be balanced with lower lift of the plates / potential clutch drag! 1 Quote Link to comment
CockneyRick Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 Clutch & Basket was rebuilt & thoroughly checked. All was good or replaced! Was heavy & never improved. Tried several cable routes & no difference. Anyone on here who's met me & the bike will agree! 1 Quote Link to comment
coombehouse Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 2 hours ago, CockneyRick said: My question to this would be, having dumped the HD springs & fitted a new cable in my bigbored Yoshi GS1100E because the clutch was ridiculously heavy, how would weight make any difference? The lever is "Popeye" heavy even if you are sat on it without the engine running, & when it is & moving it's exactly the same You misunderstand. When the bike was designed by a man in Japan, the weight of the bike would have dictated the need for a heavy duty design with heavy springs. The statement does not apply to the scenario you describe. Your problem is one of balancing spring rate, lever ratio, clutch disengagement & your wrist with cable routing & cable quality thrown in there. Not an easy equation. 1 Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, blighty said: Hydraulic clutch conversion is the answer to your problems. It isn't, see the thread on it in this section. What has made a difference is finding three what I think are original clutch springs in my shed and fitting them. The clutch is now noticeably lighter. I am sure they are stock springs that were on the bike from new (I have no idea where the other 3 are though). They have white paint sprayed on one side and are well within the service limit for length. I bought from Gary Hurd (Grumpy) a set of stock springs (750 Kat, should be same as EFE) a while back and these have been in for a year or so but these springs are definitely longer than the 3 I put in that have dramatically lightened my clutch. I haven't road tested the bike yet as the only bloke I trust round here for MOTs is on holiday until next week and mine has expired. Edited July 23, 2017 by Dezza Quote Link to comment
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