About time to!!

[Screwriverracing]

 

[Bigkenxx]

Great stuff 

[caferacerdan]

ITS ALLIVVEE!

[Screwriverracing]

Yes it runs, but not very well.

will swap the ecu tomorrow and see if it's any better.

Not bad for standing for 10 plus years.

notice the dust.

Cheers SRR

[bruteforce]

Look what I've found in an old 1996 mag.... Your mugshot is in it too, do you allow me to show it here screwriverracing?

 

Good that you kept it and never gave up!

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by bruteforce

[Gixer1460]

Ooooooh! Pink Torpedo that sounds a bit rude! LOL

[Screwriverracing]

Swapped the ecu over, no different , couldn't even get it to start. But had some nice misfires, almost s--- my pants, seems to be flooding all the time.

Going to see if I can borrow a set of carbs just to run it up.

Cheers SRR

Edited April 12, 2016 by Screwriverracing

[Maggotbreath]

Awesome machine, also dam cool you've still got it.

[slingy1157]

Nice to see this going again. Whats the current spec/ Components of the EFI system?

[bruteforce]

Looks like the same problems as 10 years ago? Only thing I can advise is to go Microsquirt as there are a couple of guys with great experience here. Will set you back some money again I'm afraid...

[Screwriverracing]

Ecu is a RACETECH developments , have a collection of 3 at the moment one with data logger but haven't got the software to use it.

They are still around and even did the ignition on the XR69 Michael Dunlop won on last year.

Cherrs SRR

[slingy1157]

Do you have the software to connect to the ECU and look at the settings and tables? If you do, have you spent any time to learn what all the input fields mean, and what its using to control the fueling and cold starts etc. This is where i would be starting. ANY  ECU is a powerful tool but is only as good as the data it has to calculate from. It dosnt know what engine its on and cannot preddict what is required. Its all about correct data entry lol.

So, lets get this bugger sorted, Please answer the following questions so we can see where we are at:

1. Do you have the software to acces the ECU?
2. What model of Racetech is it?
3. Does it control Spark as well? (looks like wasted spark dyna coils still?)
4. Does it have a MAP sensor and what type?
5. Does it have a TPS and what type?
6. Does it have a coolant sensor in the oil anywhere?
7. Does it have an inlet air temp sensor and what type?
8. What size Injectors and high or low impedance ( from memory high are about 13-14ohms across the pins of each injector, low are only 2-3 ohms or something)
9. Does it have a wideband on the bike either stand alone or wired into the ECU?
10. Has it ever run propperly on this efi system?
11. What fuel pump and reg is it using?
12. Did you build the system or get it done by someone?
13. Do you know if its using MAP or a combination of MAP and TPS to control the fueling?

I know its a lot of questions but there are lots of minds available here to help and info is the key to helping. The racetech looks quite capable so i'm sure it will work, we just need to know what its should be doing to help.

It takes ALOT of time to come to grips with the software and terminology for the ECU. The more you understand the software, the more powerful it becomes as a tool when combined with the ecu. Be honest, anyone can piece together an efi system these days, its quite straightforward, but understanding the software and correct data entry is the tricky bit. Get your head around this and it dosnt matter if your system isn't working as you can trouble shoot quite quickly using the data being given to you from the system and the ecu via the software.

Looking on the Racetech website, they will still support and provide software for older model ecu's, so you could get the latest available software update for it, learn how to use it and the datalogger and see if you can tune from the logs or get it dynotuned, but i think maybe like Bruteforce suggested, swap it to a microsquirt/megesquirt as there is enough people here to help to get it going, should be quite straightforward as its already efi, and then the Tunerstudio software isnt alot of money and is GREAT. The auto tuning works a treat. laptop in a rucksack and ride around while it tunes it for you. I cant stress how good this works. Dynos will just be for power runs once you've used it. You can even get the SHadowdash android app and datalog using your phone or tablet. It also has great crank pickup logging facilities so you can even check the signal the ecu is getting from the crank trigger for correctness and function without an oscilloscope. 

Either way, whatever ECU you use, learn the ways of the software, understand what is being used to control the fueling and how that relates to the tables. Its all about the data 

[Screwriverracing]

Hi,

spoke tho RACETECH today, they are going to look into it for me, the problem is when you try to pull boost the bike stalls.

They let slip that it is a known problem and possible down to using the standard pickups.

Got to ring them back tomorrow for more information.

fingers crossed all I Need is a new pick up with more teeth.

Cheers SRR

 

[Screwriverracing]

Hi Slingy1157

1.I have the software

2.not sure but software is EMSPC 9 V9.03

3.Ecu does the ignition as well using the dynamic coils

4. Marreli map sensor 3.5 bar I think.

5.yes, type not sure.

6. No

7.Yes, type not sure.

8.bosch injectors, can't remember size or impedance 

9. Has a lambda, gauge on clocks , but also runs of the ECU that has the logger built in. Had trouble running the software for the logger if memory serves me.

10.Did run Ok of boost just couldn't pull boost without having to turn the choke up.

11.Furl pump both bosch I think.

12. Installed it myself had parts made by different people, intercooler, plenum with built in bell mouths  etc.

13. Have tried it on MAP sensor and TPS same results

14. Turbo is a ray jay.

Tha nks for the help.

Cheers SRR

[slingy1157]

If it starts ok which it seems to, and runs ok to red line while stationary, or with the up pipe disconnected i doubt very much it has much to do with the crank pick up side of things.

If it starts stumbling at a certain rev range whether its under boost or not, or under load or not id say pick up as well, but if its only really while starting to boost i would say not.

RPM is RPM, boost dosnt have any effect on the crank pick up. But, this may cause problems from a  fine tuning aspect later on with unstable timing at higher rpm etc. But just for a minute,lets continue looking elsewhere for the problem. Out of interest, what crank wheel and pick up setup are you using ? 2 stock pickups and a single tooth wheel?

[slingy1157]

So i take it from the fact you arnt running a coolant sensor and the comment about turning up the choke, that you have a potentiometer or variable resistor with a knob on it that you use for cold start enrichment? That's fine, dont think it maters too much.  But your comment about using it helps push the rpm up under boost is interesting.

Right, the next bit is uber boring but very necesary. As i can't find the software to download on the net (they must keep it closely guarded lol) i really need to see screen shots of  every window of the softaware, everydrop down menu, and every table so i can compare the data in there to what you have and see how the ecu is setup to control off the sensors.

Once we have confirmed all the settings look good then maybe we can start looking at opperation of components.

 

[Arttu]

6 hours ago, slingy1157 said:

RPM is RPM, boost dosnt have any effect on the crank pick up.

Actually it isn't always that simple. It's quite common problem that crank pick up starts reading noise when boost goes up. Logic behind this is that ignition needs more voltage to break a spark when pressure in the cylinder increases. This also increases electrical interference generated by ignition system and quite often the crank pick up is the first thing that get offended.

[slingy1157]

44 minutes ago, Arttu said:

Actually it isn't always that simple. It's quite common problem that crank pick up starts reading noise when boost goes up. Logic behind this is that ignition needs more voltage to break a spark when pressure in the cylinder increases. This also increases electrical interference generated by ignition system and quite often the crank pick up is the first thing that get offended.

Well there you go, will add that one to the memory banks, cheers 

But , at the same time, if adding fuel using the cold start enrichment device is helping it to push through, i'd of thought that the problem may be more settings related or how the tables are set up, or how the map sensor is calibrated or similar, rather than the crank pickup?

The more brains on this one the better  

[Screwriverracing]

Hi all,

Thanks for the help,

I will try and find the digital copy of the manual and email to who ever wants a look, pm me your email address if you don't want it made public.

Cheers SRR

[Arttu]

12 hours ago, slingy1157 said:

But , at the same time, if adding fuel using the cold start enrichment device is helping it to push through, i'd of thought that the problem may be more settings related or how the tables are set up, or how the map sensor is calibrated or similar, rather than the crank pickup?

Agree. If choke (whatever it does in this case) affects to the problem then probably it isn't crank trigger related.

[Screwriverracing]

Got the old windows 98 laptop and fired it up took a couple of screen shots

list of parameters

and

Ignition map and

help file

Do the figures look OK as I am having problems starting the bike and it sometimes kicks back and sounds like it's trying to break the starter clutch.

Cheers SRR

Edited April 15, 2016 by Screwriverracing

[Gixer1460]

M8 - you've just given access to all your business quotes to everyone! Probably not a good move?

[bruteforce]

Good thing I haven't looked then 

[slingy1157]

Good, some real data to start with.

So SRR, first thoughts are, those figures all look completely wrong. The engines getting hit with nearly full timing as soon as it trys to run!! But it also depends a little bit on what the engine load values 1-7 represent. Is this TPS or is this MAP? Is 1 like 0% TPS and and 7 70%? or does each represent 30kpa or something? For a Turbo application it really needs to be MAP values or its of little use. I take it that the rows and collumns dont stop at 7 either and that you can scroll up and right to reveal more columns and rows?

But to start with i would simply emulate a stock ignition timing. Not sure what stock EFE timing is so check your manual, but if idle is say 9* , then fill all columns for 0-1000 revs with 9's, then if max advance is say 34* @ 2500rpm, then fill that colum with that value, then get the calculator out and work the other 4 values , so the 1300rpm column  would be all 14, 1600rpm column 19, 1900rpm column 24, and 2200rpm column 29, which then gets us to 2500rpm column at 34. keep punching all these numbers to fill the whole table even if the rows and collums go higher than 7. Everything above 2500rpm will be 34 in all bins in both axis of the table

So by doing this the advance will go up by RPM only with no correction for engine load, then from 2500 to redline it will be the same value. This will be the base to build the table from once we know everything else is right and what the engine load numbers represent and their increments propperly.

try this for starting and revving. but there might be actual cranking settings as well which will effect starting.

But man that is some basic software! Tunerstudio is a lightyear ahead of this and so much easier to use. But, lets see how we go with this still for know.

Great work with the pictures, But what we really need is pictures just like youve done for each parameter listed. But for starters , H would be intersting (as i presume this is cranking not cracking) E, and F. 

[Screwriverracing]

Dragged it out today

Tried starting it, but no luck. Kept on flooding, then noticed nothing coming out the fuel return.

Removed the regulator, managed to get a face full of fuel, and found it wasn't letting any fuel through.

Any idea?

I thought if they were knackered they pass to much fuel through not none.

Spec on the regulator is

What is it best to replace it with, the same or something else relatively cheap.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Screwriverracing