Slabside not charging

[Nelson]

Hi guys,

Was out in the Yorkshire wilds when the bike started running rough & died, first time ever.

Tried to start it & the starter not turning, dash lights dimming & tacko going weird, like a flat battery.

Turned everything off, bumped it (not fun in 25 degrees) & nursed it home.

Charged it up when I got home & the battery took hours to get fully charged, like a flat battery.

Checked the battery with the bike switched off, 12.9 volts

Fired it up & the meter shows 12.7v at idle & increasing the rev's to 3500 makes no difference.

Putting my best Sherlock Holmes voice on, I deduce, the generators not working

I've never worked on these all in one generators, more use to separate stator & rec / reg, I know it's the same stuff inside but.

However, who's the usual suspects & can that damper thing cause issues ?

I've looked in the manual & there's a lot of talk about hand presses, bearing pullers & soldering irons

Any help would be greatly appreciated before I dive in at the deep end & make a page 1 mistake.

Nelson

 

[Gixer1460]

I've never had one apart as I've never known one to fail but 'spose anything is possible LOL! But you are unlikely to need presses and pullers to remove and replace the regulator / rectifier as that is probably what has died. I'm guessing it'll be under the plastic end cover, bolted or screwed to something metal (as heatsink) with either plugs or ring terminal electrical connections - best I can do without looking in the manual - if I do, i'll correct any mistakes later ! 

Watch how you re-insert the alternator as a) the o-ring can get pinched / dislodged and b) the gear may not align with the oil pump gear and crack it so don't force it!

Just checked on Robinsons - don't look at the replacement cost ! ! ! Best obtain a complete s/hand alternator - at a guess - a fifth of the cost of the part !

Edited August 5, 2020 by Gixer1460

[Nelson]

Thanks for the reply say what now!?, yeah I've never had problems either.

Looking in the manual the Rec / Reg lives under the end cover but all connections are solder on.

It looks like I should be able to get to most of the important bits with a fair bit of messing about, hopefully.

I was just hoping someone had experience & could point me in the right direction.

Cheers. 

[Simbec1863]

As stated above and it sounds as though you have a manual, if you remove the alternator from the bike, then remove the end cover then desolder the reg from the plate after removing the whole assembly from the body.You can then test the reg as stated in the manual.Its not a difficult job just a bit fiddly.

If it was me I’d be looking for a alternator swap once you prove it’s the reg, as the price for new one is bloody ridiculous, but I wouldn’t just get a replacement without proving the reg is knackered first.Maybe some kind soul on here has one in their shed 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Simbec1863

[wraith]

Once you know it's your alternator/geny that's gone and not a bad wire.

All oil cooled alternators can be swapped you just need to change the cog for the one on yours, the only other thing that maybe different is the plug on the 2 wires, so unless you want to keep it standard slabside have a look at b6 ones as they seem to go cheep on that site.

Otherwise I do have a slabside 750 one in a box but I will have to dig it out and check it.

[Nelson]

Hi Simbec, I am hoping it's the brushes, the're kinda consumables & a reasonable price.

Once you can get at everything it doesn't sound to difficult, however, what do you use as a variable DC supply, I don't have that kinda thing lying about. 

I might have to throw myself at everyones mercy.

 

  

[Nelson]

2 minutes ago, wraith said:

Once you know it's your alternator/geny that's gone and not a bad wire.

All oil cooled alternators can be swapped you just need to change the cog for the one on yours, the only other thing that maybe different is the plug on the 2 wires, so unless you want to keep it standard slabside have a look at b6 ones as they seem to go cheep on that site.

Otherwise I do have a slabside 750 one in a box but I will have to dig it out and check it.

Cheers Wraith,  

All oil cooled gennies are the same, it's just the drive cog on the end, 

That's great news, thanks Wraith

[wraith]

10 minutes ago, Nelson said:

Cheers Wraith,  

All oil cooled gennies are the same, it's just the drive cog on the end, 

That's great news, thanks Wraith

Some have different looking covers (sprocket side) but they all do the same job  for a teapot one on my gsx1100f motor and it's been in it for about 6 years with no problems.

The only ones that just come to mind are some of the 750 teapots they have the two sides plug into them instead of the two wires coming out of them with the plug on.

[wraith]

22 minutes ago, Nelson said:

Cheers Wraith,  

All oil cooled gennies are the same, it's just the drive cog on the end, 

That's great news, thanks Wraith

Pics 

Left slabside 750 center I think the old gsx1100f one right gsxr1100k

B6 one in b6 motor 

[Nelson]

Thanks Wraith.

I've checked the positive supply & the orange load wires in the loom & they seem ok, so I'm pretty sure it's the gennie, hopefully get time to take it out today & have a look.

Is there any difference in output between the 600 & 1200 ?

Twin headlight or singles if you know what I mean.

Just looked on Eblag, there's loads to go at.

Cheers Wraith, you really have made my day, I owe you one.

Nelson

   

[Simbec1863]

2 hours ago, Nelson said:

Hi Simbec, I am hoping it's the brushes, the're kinda consumables & a reasonable price.

Once you can get at everything it doesn't sound to difficult, however, what do you use as a variable DC supply, I don't have that kinda thing lying about. 

I might have to throw myself at everyones mercy.

 

  

I’ve always used a charged battery as my power source from memory you only need 12v to do the test,maybe I’ve been doing it wrong all these years but it’s got me by so far,hopefully it’s just the brushes or do as @wraithsays and swap it out for a blandit one, cheap as chips on eBlag or maybe someone on here has one you can borrow first to eliminate the fault 

[Dezza]

I remember a 750 slabby build thread a couple of years back that included a slabby alternator refurbishment. I can't remember who it was but the OSS member lived in Spain and did much of his (high quality and knowledgable) work outside in his back yard A series of searches may bring it up.

[wraith]

37 minutes ago, Dezza said:

 OSS member lived in Spain and did much of his (high quality and knowledgable) work outside in his back yard A series of searches may bring it up.

As it's pissing it down here at the moment and seems like it has been for the last month, working outside in the sunshine sounds good 

[Nelson]

Hi guys,

Think I've found the culprit, the brushes are well below minimum

 

 

Did the tests without having to take the bearing off & used the battery like you said @Simbec1863

here's a shot of what there supposed to look like

Priced them up at Robinsons & I got it wrong at the first look, they're actually about 75 quid so I might go with what@wraith reckons, loads on the bay.

Thanks for all the replies & help

 I was proper not happy but it's now safe for the family to mither  me again, I'll let you know when it's fixed

Cheers

 

  

[Simbec1863]

The brush holder is £70 ish but I’m sure you can buy the brushes separately for a few quid or if not wemoto should do a kit for about £20 at least you can for my blandit race bike so would think you can for a slabby too 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Simbec1863

[Nelson]

@Simbec1863 I just found the same ones at Wemoto. I unsoldered the old brushes out pretty easy & reckon I could re-solder the new ones in , did you do this & did it go alright. Did the brushes work ok. 25 quid’s a sweet deal

 

[Simbec1863]

Yes that’s what I did and they worked fine for me 

[Nelson]

So I thought I'd give @Simbec1863idea a go, ordered the brushes from Wemoto & they were dropped off by Postie in less than 18 hours.

At first I didn't think they were 'pre-curved', but they are, pictures not the best.

Got busy with my ironing

To stop the brush springing out, tied the extra long lead wire around the fixing whilst I soldered them on.

Shoved it all back together, 

Result.

That had to be one of the easiest & cheapest fixes of all time.

Thanks for all the suggestions & help, special shout-out to @wraith& @Simbec1863   

Cheers boys.

[Simbec1863]

@Nelsonglad you’re sorted that’s what OSS is all about 

[Dezza]

This needs to be a sticky at the top of the section

[Captain Chaos]

14,8V is a bit too much. Check out the article about charging system mod in the sticky thread above

Edited August 10, 2020 by Captain Chaos

[Captain Chaos]

http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/archives/2515

[wraith]

7 hours ago, Simbec1863 said:

@Nelsonglad you’re sorted that’s what OSS is all about 

@Nelson +1 with what @Simbec1863 says 

And good to know about the bushes 

[Billythekidd]

Love a satisfying conclusion to a story. Who needs books haha

[Nelson]

@Captain Chaos, it is a bit on the high side. It’s in the unofficial 14 to 15 volt range, the dudes at Suzuki give a top value of 14.5. I’ll power up the meter & let you know what’s what.