Slingy or WP modern Swinging arm options ?

[NorthernBloke]

I'm looking to start planning the next round of mods for the coming winter and am looking to fit a different Swinger to my WP, not sure if WP's are the same frame pivot dimensions as earlier slingies are so not sure where exactly to post this, Admins please move to wherever you think is best.    Anyway I'm aware that Gen 1 Busa's are a relatively easy fit and that's the style I'm going for straight with the top bracing. but I wondered about SRAD's and say what now!? K1's to K4's as they all have that similar look?

Iv'e dug into part numbers etc and some are similar and others aren't so I'm not clear, so I wondered if anyone has the critical dimensions for any of these swingers & wheels and spindles etc?

I'm also interested in using Prillier snowflake wheels similar to Vizman's rear on old red, so again anyone fitted the Prillier wheel to any of the above rear ends?

 

cheers.

[Ade]

Slingshot swingarms are plain box section. The early one had a 4.5" x 18" wheel with box adjusters. The L/M was 5.5" x 17" wheel with welded on machined adjusters. The 750 WP arm was different to the 1100 WP arm. I personally prefer the look of the 1100 WP arm. I have seen the Aprilia banana arm fitted in bikes and it looks great. If I was using the Aprilia snowflake wheel I would use the whole rear end and make it fit.

 

[NorthernBloke]

2 hours ago, Ade said:

https://www.Eblag.co.uk/itm/APRILIA-RSV1000-RSV-1000-MILLE-REAR-WHEEL-YEAR-2007/163672977800?hash=item261bab7188%3Ag%3AqskAAOSwq7lc2qv6&LH_ItemCondition=4

Is that the wheel you want? Looks like a snowflake.

 

Cheers Ade, Yes that's the one, I'm looking for really slim spokes and with the Aprilia ones there are a lot of them about even some forged ones and with me being on a budget and all.

As for the arms I'm wondering what the lengths are as I want one at least as long as the current one, nothing shorter.

[Captain Chaos]

3 hours ago, Ade said:

The early one had a 4.5" x 18" wheel

17" wheels on all Slingshots

[markfoggy]

I think the trick is to get something quite narrow at the swing arm mount. Dims on the W series are very similar to pre Boiler so most known things will work. But, I'd steer clear of 6" rim solutions on very modern tackle unless you fancy milling the swing arm pivot width down to size. All doable but would take a big machine to do it.

I think whole Priller is probably a good choice and you should get it from a breaker all in one piece to make life relatively easy.

I, of course, just wanted to make my life difficult so opted for a combination of Benelli and Triumph wheels, but that is very much about trying to make my wheels QD.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by markfoggy

[markfoggy]

Oh and swing arm pivot size is an issue. WP had a 25mm spindle and an adjuster on the left and later bikes have a 30 and adjuster from the right. causes all sorts of potential fuck ups. (don't quote me on this, I need to check again).

I've got a frame that some fuckwit tried to hack out larger, which is useful for other things, but is only a jig nowadays. 

[markfoggy]

pm for more details, i will try to remember.

[Ade]

22 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

17" wheels on all Slingshots

But the early slingshot was 4.5" rim, then it went up to 5.5" for the L/M.

[Captain Chaos]

yes but not 18".

[NorthernBloke]

On 6/26/2020 at 11:21 PM, markfoggy said:

pm for more details, i will try to remember.

Thanks Mark I think I’m going to go either Busa or K1-4 arms with a Prillier wheel, the arms should fit fairly easily so it’s then just the wheel alignment.

[NorthernBloke]

Update -  I've gone for a Gen 1 Busa arm as I'm assured they are an easy fit. Also got a forged Prillier wheel coming too. gone for the matching Prillier caliper and bracket as well. 

so this issue now is 28mm Busa rear wheel spindle and 25mm for the Prillier wheel etc. I'm in no rush as this is all gearing up for the winter but need to work out the easiest option to make things fit.  The option I'm warming to is getting new adjuster blocks made for the smaller 25mm Prillier spindle along with getting the swingarm adjuster slots made smaller so everything on the Prillier wheel, cush and caliper carrier can be retained as is.  Not sure if the swinging arm slots could be welded up and machines smaller and same for the adjuster blocks ?   I've looked into bearing swaps for the wheel and cush drive but the only ones the right dimensions are actually thicker ( wider?) so may need the wheel and cush machining to fit which might be more difficult, any experience of similar from anyone?

 

Cheers.

[NorthernBloke]

Just going through all the minor details of this rear end swap and it looks as though II'll need to go for a 520 chain-set without going for custom one offs. This should also help with chain clearance but will a 520 be safe on my standard 1100? I'm not planning on tuning it apart from maybe going fuel injection at a later date.

PS I plan to add a slight stretch to the Busa arm as well as its currently shorter than the standard arm, so maybe going with the bolt on extenders or something like them, not sure if this makes the 520 chain issue better or worse?

[spondonturbo]

I had a busa arm in mine and did not need a lesser chain. Where is the issue with clearance? Suzuki Nick has my old extended busa arm for sale I think but it needs powdercoating.

 

[NorthernBloke]

The issue is that I'm going to use a forged OZ Prillier rear wheel and they come with 525 chainsets or 520's so I'm trying to keep it simple as JT do 520 front sprockets for the bike so 520 is the common denominator. I would prefer 530, to go 530 would mean getting a custom rear sprocket made and I'm not sure how much that would cost? maybe that's the best option though....

[dupersunc]

520 chain is no issue, they don't last as long obviously, but plenty of 200bhp superbikes use them.

Custom sprockets from Talon aren't expensive though.

[NorthernBloke]

Cheers, I’ll get it all mocked up and see how things line up and if possible will go 530 with a custom sprocket . If not will go for top quality 520.

[NorthernBloke]

Been doing some mocking up and measuring today, to check that things will basically fit together and then working out a plan. Still trying to resolve the 28mm to 25mm axle issue & was wondering if any other Suzuki axle blocks might already have a 25mm spindle hole, spent hours looking today but not found anything, maybe some of the newer GSXR's might fit, any suggestions? Anyway some pics coz I know you like em.

Edited July 23, 2020 by NorthernBloke
spelling

[Askamaskinservice]

What size bearings do you have? Can you change to a smaller inside dia bearing?

Or this.

https://www.Eblag.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Seamless-Round-Tube-Pipe-316-Grade-4mm-OD-to-42mm-OD/263751067027?var=562961509796&hash=item3d68c9e593:g:koIAAOSw3UZbBqe1

Edited July 24, 2020 by Askamaskinservice
Added info

[markfoggy]

Dropping a spindle size is really useful, but only comes into play if you want to make the wheel spacers captive. 

All of a sudden though, you are into finding an engineering shop and making lots of bits. The spacers could happily have a sleeve section 28 o/d and 25 I/d, that press into the wheel bearings. Also you could get a pair of accurate stainless tubes that press through Hayabusa Adjusters, but are a press fit. If these were longer by the depth of the slot in the arm,  Job Jobbed. Smart money then is to have the brake side one also locate the rear caliper hanger to stop it dropping on the floor when you change the wheel.

[MeanBean49]

Make some top hat spacers, 28mm od, 25mm id to slide through the busa chain adjuster blocks and then into the swingarm adjuster slots, you can use 25mm spindle then.

Another good idea is to stick a ruler from the centre of the wheel to the inside face of the sprocket on the wheel your going to be using. Slingshot standard is 100mm ish iirc, if wheel your using is more you need to suss out how to address keeping the wheel central and the chain alignement correct. Busa/TL/srad/k series gsxr are 110mm. Takes a bit of machining etc to to get them fitted properly. I think aprillia wheels are more than 110mm.

[NorthernBloke]

Thanks for all the info guys, I've discounted the bearing swap as all the bearings I can find with the correct i/d & o/d are wider than the current ones so would need machining to fit. So will go with the spacer option.  As suggested going through the caliper bracket as well is a great idea.  As for the hub width I think it will need machining as the sprocket bolts catch on the arm as it is, I'll measure the sprocket to centre line as MeanBean suggested.

[NorthernBloke]

15 hours ago, MeanBean49 said:

Make some top hat spacers, 28mm od, 25mm id to slide through the busa chain adjuster blocks and then into the swingarm adjuster slots, you can use 25mm spindle then.

Another good idea is to stick a ruler from the centre of the wheel to the inside face of the sprocket on the wheel your going to be using. Slingshot standard is 100mm ish iirc, if wheel your using is more you need to suss out how to address keeping the wheel central and the chain alignement correct. Busa/TL/srad/k series gsxr are 110mm. Takes a bit of machining etc to to get them fitted properly. I think aprillia wheels are more than 110mm.

Measured the wheel and its approximately 110mm from centre to inside sprocket face.

[MeanBean49]

6 hours ago, NorthernBloke said:

Measured the wheel and its approximately 110mm from centre to inside sprocket face.

If you can get that down a bit should help with getting hub to clear swingarm too.

Not sure what sprockets are avaialble for those wheels, talon sprockets for gsxr wheels are dished, you can flip them and also get a 2mm spacer behind front sprocket. (possibly more with 520 sprocket). Adds up to about 5mm of the 10 mm you need to find, much easier to machine 5mm off wheel than 10mm

[NorthernBloke]

Just working on the swinging arm ATM, getting all the bits together. I'm going to get the axle slots and blocks welded up and then re-machined to suite the new 25mm spindle and wheel bits and pieces, that way there's less parts to be messing with once its done. I will then use the Prillier caliper and bracket and to make this work I've got hold of a locating peg for the caliper bracket and will mount that into the Busa swinger, I will drill and tap it into the arm, but I am concerned that the single skin of the arm won't be strong enough to take the braking forces. I am wondering if its worth getting a solid block of aluminium welded into the arm and then drill and tap the steel pin into this, what do you guy think?

 

Here's some pics to explain it all,

 

[NorthernBloke]

Autumn update, No further progress until recently was making the most of the dry weather but with the night's closing in iv'e pulled the trigger and started the dry rear end build.

I've loosely assembled things to check the fit and alignment and clearance and all those other things to consider. Iv'e got to make some new dog bones, just waiting for the steel to arrive, before I can put it on its wheels and double check the alignment.

A couple of questions, how freely and easily should the swinger pivot without anything else involved, I forgot to check my original before the strip down? I think I might have added too many thrust washers as it locks up when I tighten it up.

Secondly the new dog bone angle is somewhere in between the GSXR and the Busa because I'm mixing the two, does the angle look okay on the photo? TBH I can't see it working any other way, also will the mix of GSXR linkage & shock with Busa arm and custom dog bones effect the ratio and operation of the rear end?

 

Anyway here are the photo's