GS1000 Turbo, attempt no 2

[Reinhoud]

The AFR with 140 main jets was 13, I put 142.5 jets in it, mixture was way to rich, that rich that it didn't run propperly on boost, the AFR was lower as 10.

I have a suspicion that one or both sizes jets might be off, I think I can see that the 142.5 bores are larger then the 140 bores, this should be minimal and not noticable with the naked eye, I think.

I dropped the needles 1 groove, straight away the highest groove, the AFR on the needles look alright now.

 

Tomorrow the 140 jets go back in, and have another look.

Also retard the ignition a couple of degrees, so she's finaly done.

 

I've alse read in the past that the pitot tubes can cause a rich or lean mixture, no clue what can cause what.

[80GS1000]

On 6/13/2020 at 9:36 PM, Reinhoud said:

 

Sounds...brutal.   Won't need to buy a new front tire any time soon since it'll never be on the pavement. 

[Reinhoud]

7 hours ago, 80GS1000 said:

Sounds...brutal.   Won't need to buy a new front tire any time soon since it'll never be on the pavement. 

It lifts it frontwheel in the first 3 gears, but that's it.

Yeah, it sounds alright, also not too loud

[Reinhoud]

I didn't like the bar end mirrors, so I took some round bar and made stalks so I can still use the mirrors, but in a different way.

First I had them on top of the handle bar, looked alright, more in style with the bike, but all I saw were my arms, so I put them below the handle bar, doesn't look as good as on top, but I can live with it. Vision is quite alright now.

 

Retarded the ignition a bit, detonation seems to be gone, AFR seems to be alright too, now I've got another problem once of a sudden, the plenum is blown off no when the turbo builds up boost quick, boost comes up quick and over 15 psi.

 

So, still not done..

Edited August 8, 2020 by Reinhoud

[mark35gun]

On 8/7/2020 at 3:12 PM, Reinhoud said:

The AFR with 140 main jets was 13, I put 142.5 jets in it, mixture was way to rich, that rich that it didn't run propperly on boost, the AFR was lower as 10.

I have a suspicion that one or both sizes jets might be off, I think I can see that the 142.5 bores are larger then the 140 bores, this should be minimal and not noticable with the naked eye, I think.

I dropped the needles 1 groove, straight away the highest groove, the AFR on the needles look alright now.

 

Tomorrow the 140 jets go back in, and have another look.

Also retard the ignition a couple of degrees, so she's finaly done.

 

I've alse read in the past that the pitot tubes can cause a rich or lean mixture, no clue what can cause what.

i can tell you from experience if the emulsion tubes are worn it causes rich and shitty running

[Reinhoud]

On 8/17/2020 at 8:11 AM, mark35gun said:

i can tell you from experience if the emulsion tubes are worn it causes rich and shitty running

Nah, I found the problem, the 140 jets are Keihins, the rest are Mikuni's

 

[Reinhoud]

Little update..

 

I've been tinkering with the settings a lttle bit.

 

Playing with boost pressure and ignition timing, bike suffered from detonation quite a bit.

Put one step bigger jets in it (142), set the retard from 12 to 8 dergrees, this made quite a bit difference! More power, smoother running.

Still detonation, mate of me recomended to try tuolene (paint thinners) mixed in the petrol, did didn't work very well and is very expensive.

Then I tried octane booster, and that works surprisingly well! Only a wee bit of detonation and very short.

I tried to ad more octane booster and put the reatrd back to 4 degrees, but this didn't work, the same amount of detonation, and no more power as when set on 8 degrees retard.

 

Pretty happy how it runs. I do notice that this smaller turbo doesn't give as much power as the bigger one, but only going flat out it's noticable.

 

When I started to ride the bike I didn't like the hard suspension, was very uncomfortable, so I softened that up, more comfortable, but I notice that it doesn't steer as well as before.

Also, after going flat out, there was oil leaking from somewhere, couldn't figure out where, looked like it was coming from the breather.

Turned out that the restrictor from the turbo oil feed line was too big, turbo got too much oil, up pipe was oily on the inside. Made a smaller restriction, and all the leaks are gone now, and the oil pressure to the turbo became more stable.

When I go flat out there is an oily mist coming from the breather, maybe look at that in the future.

 

I am thinking of a bigger turbo in the future, but only when I find an affordable one..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bruteforce]

Nice 'n fat bike!

Good to hear you're still on it. Detonation should be avoided at all cost so just a smidge bigger mains maybe? I'd leave the turbo as it is. More top end is silly anyway, only looks good on a dyno sheet, the rush of the turbo kicking in is much more important imho.

 

Greetings, Marco.

[Reinhoud]

Thanks

 

Little bit more torque would be nice, 20/30Nm or so.. It's not slow, but also not overly fast.

I also have the impression that the small turbo may cause  the detonation, with the bigger turbo I didn't have that problem.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Reinhoud

[cnap504]

Nicely done,  I had a 1979 GS 1000 with ATP turbo set up really liked it. Seven pounds of boost was friendly but pretty strong, on boost 3rd gear wheelies.  Smiles

[Reinhoud]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:28 AM, cnap504 said:

Nicely done,  I had a 1979 GS 1000 with ATP turbo set up really liked it. Seven pounds of boost was friendly but pretty strong, on boost 3rd gear wheelies.  Smiles

Photo's?

Stock engine? There aren't many GS1000's with a GS1000 engine with turbo..

 

One hand, with the smaller turbo it isn't overly fast, but when I have to get close to my mate again, He has a 2006 GSXR and is a better rider and has more guts - VERY windy where I live, I'm behind him pretty quick..

Edited February 24, 2021 by Reinhoud

[Gixer1460]

Ambition and abiity! Know your's and the machinery's limits and stick to them - there's plenty who didn't in graveyards!

[Reinhoud]

18 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Ambition and abiity! Know your's and the machinery's limits and stick to them - there's plenty who didn't in graveyards!

I know my limits, I'm sure someone who knows what he's doing can go faster on my bike, but I don't realy care, I know I'm also not the slowest..

My brother in law got an accident about 8 years ago, just a stupid accident, misjudged a corner, still on his learner, he landed very unlucky, the results were VERY serious, he's lucky he survived, he still can't walk like before, I always have that in the back of my head..

When I ride my mates GSXR I can go faster on that bike..

 

Where I live there are corners about every 300/400 meters and going up and down continually, most of the corners you can't see through, when I can't see through I just don't have the guts, like I have troubles lining up the bike properly to take the corner.

 

Couple of weeks ago my mate and I were in the "local mountains" hair pins and stuff. Because I'm slower then my mate I was up front, going through the hair pins, at one point we got overtaken by other bike riders, when they were in front of me they were only a little bit faster then me, but the antics they did to go that little bit faster, they needed 2 lanes..

[Azov]

looks a right mean bugger, love to see the older classics turbo'd

[bruteforce]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:45 AM, Reinhoud said:

I know my limits, I'm sure someone who knows what he's doing can go faster on my bike, but I don't realy care, I know I'm also not the slowest..

My brother in law got an accident about 8 years ago, just a stupid accident, misjudged a corner, still on his learner, he landed very unlucky, the results were VERY serious, he's lucky he survived, he still can't walk like before, I always have that in the back of my head..

When I ride my mates GSXR I can go faster on that bike..

 

Where I live there are corners about every 300/400 meters and going up and down continually, most of the corners you can't see through, when I can't see through I just don't have the guts, like I have troubles lining up the bike properly to take the corner.

 

Couple of weeks ago my mate and I were in the "local mountains" hair pins and stuff. Because I'm slower then my mate I was up front, going through the hair pins, at one point we got overtaken by other bike riders, when they were in front of me they were only a little bit faster then me, but the antics they did to go that little bit faster, they needed 2 lanes..

10 years ago when the new TurboGS was just finished, I nearly died 3 times in a row within the timespan of a week. I saw that as a sign... My little 550-based GS just doesn't handle good enough to stay ahead of the power. I most certainly cannot ride with modern 600's handling wise. But I kick ass on the straights  

[Reinhoud]

20 hours ago, bruteforce said:

10 years ago when the new TurboGS was just finished, I nearly died 3 times in a row within the timespan of a week. I saw that as a sign... My little 550-based GS just doesn't handle good enough to stay ahead of the power. I most certainly cannot ride with modern 600's handling wise. But I kick ass on the straights  

Mine has the same.

When I started to ride it again after the rebuild I had to get used to the acceleration again, it goes so easy..

[Reinhoud]

Winter, not allowed on the road till the 5th of August ;), time to take the engine apart..

Although the bike had less vibrations in the lower revs below 5000rpm then when it was stock, it started to get vibrations above 5000rpm, so much that the hydro clutch didn't work anymore. It's also annoying when you want to rev the crap out of it on a straight.

That's why I took the engine apart, also was curious about wear and tear of the engine, also a good excuse to install the gasflowed head I have lying around. This head needed some work, that's all done now..

 

Made a stand, sprayed the bearings with brake cleaner, put the airgun on them, bearings spin about 150,000rpm, after that they spin really light.

- Draw a degree wheel on paper, copy of the dgree wheel on the crank

- Spin the crank every time from the same position

- Where the crank stops, put a dot on the paper. The more divided the dots, the more it is in balance, in theory

- Take away or add weight

- This is not as easy as it looks I found out!! I had it almost riht pretty quick, then I wanted to do the finishing touch... That took about 6 hours to get that right again.

   Was pretty fed up with it I can tell you.

 

I leave it like it is now, the bottom left section, near 67, for some reason I could not get weight in there. Every time I tried it stuffed up somewhere else.

Lot of times I got clusters top right between 22 and 45.

It's not perfect, it's reasonably divided,  now there are 2 "empty" sections, first there was only 1 "empty" section..

 

I hope it worked...

 

Tomorrow put the crankcases back together.. About time to order gaskets too, I guess.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Reinhoud

[Blower1]

It can be good idea to check clutch balance also. Clutch is a big rotating mass and if not in balance, can cause vibrations.

[Reinhoud]

On 6/25/2021 at 5:59 PM, Blower1 said:

It can be good idea to check clutch balance also. Clutch is a big rotating mass and if not in balance, can cause vibrations.

I did think about that, but no clue where to take away or add weight..

[clivegto]

How do you add weight to the crank, is it done with spot welds. 

[Gixer1460]

24 minutes ago, clivegto said:

How do you add weight to the crank, is it done with spot welds. 

Usually by inserting Tungsten plugs - easier to lose opposite weight though!

Thought about the clutch balancing but maybe as it spins opposite to the crank it works like a damper? Never aware of one being balanced!

[Reinhoud]

17 hours ago, clivegto said:

How do you add weight to the crank, is it done with spot welds. 

I drilled holes, and some spot welds on other places.

 

[Reinhoud]

17 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Usually by inserting Tungsten plugs - easier to lose opposite weight though!

Thought about the clutch balancing but maybe as it spins opposite to the crank it works like a damper? Never aware of one being balanced!

Usually, yes..

[Reinhoud]

I think I'm going to check the balance of the clutch..

[Reinhoud]

Couple of months later...

 

Bike is going again, had to get the pistons machines so it would take the piston rings (I'm so not impressed with JE), had to wait for parts (gaskets)

Can't get some gaskets anymore through Suzuki...

 

Installed the gas flowed head, I must say, it does make a difference!! It's more aggressive, better throttle response.

It did lift it frontwheel in 3rd gear on occaision, but now it does it a lot easier, it even lifts it in 4th.

The balancing did made a difference!! But not as much as I hoped for, but maybe it's something else what's causing vibrations, my mate says that 4 il engines always have some vibrations. It's at an acceptable level.

 

The less vibrations and the head gives it a bit different characteristics, revving it up goes easier, but now I start to notice that the turbo is too small.

But it has an incredible strong mid range.

Haven't taken it for a longer trip yet.

Smokes a bit when decellerating, grey-ish smoke, have to fix that.

Put new valve seals (OEM) and new piston rings on it.. Not happy with this

 

First ride on it, it didn't feel right, like it was lazy, bad response on the throttle... Turned out the grips were loose