Back in Game Harris Mag 2

[Tony Nitrous]

On 11/24/2024 at 5:22 AM, imago said:

The costs are ridiculous for those bearings which you can get, it's very very difficult to get hold of a good crank to start with as they're all over 40 years old and you only get three goes at pressing them apart and back together before they're scrap. So there's not much call for it and people are reluctant to pay a big price for something which you can't put a full warranty on because most if not all parts are SH.

That makes a lot of sense, and directly related to why the latest class dominating Pro Stock bikes in the US are now running full aftermarket billet motors / cases etc. There’s never been a better normally aspirated engine than the 1135E but they were just consuming too many new and used 40 year old parts. Theres only so many out there. The rules let them change to a full aftermarket engine because of how close to the original design it was. 

Edited November 27 by Tony Nitrous

[imago]

7 hours ago, Tony Nitrous said:

That makes a lot of sense, and directly related to why the latest class dominating Pro Stock bikes in the US are now running full aftermarket billet motors / cases etc. There’s never been a better normally aspirated engine than the 1135E but they were just consuming too many new and used 40 year old parts. Theres only so many out there. The rules let them change to a full aftermarket engine because of how close to the original design it was. 

@Duckndivereplied to a thread with the prices for those cranks etc. a little while back. I had to go and have a lie down after I saw them. 

Edited November 27 by imago

[Gixer1460]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:22 PM, imago said:

 you only get three goes at pressing them apart and back together before they're scrap. So there's not much call for it and people are reluctant to pay a big price for something which you can't put a full warranty on because most if not all parts are SH.

Interesting - why only 3 times? What is the limiting factor? Costs would be obvious issue but pin and bushing reclaim methods are possible if that is the issue?

[imago]

12 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

Interesting - why only 3 times? What is the limiting factor? Costs would be obvious issue but pin and bushing reclaim methods are possible if that is the issue?

The pins and the bores lose a little metal from the surface each time they're pressed apart and back together. That makes it impossible to tru the crank properly.

Cranks are only worth a rebuild or replacement for a performance application as even a slightly iffy one will last quite happily in a stock 100 hp engine.

If you sleeve them then you double the interference faces which halves the grip so that's out. Building up the pin is possible in theory but it's not as good as the original because it's nigh on impossible to get heat treatment to work on a sprayed finish and the cost to produce an inferior joint means it's better to go for a replacement crank.

[dupersunc]

10 hours ago, Allspeeds said:

I was very surprised how primitive the swingarm spindle is on the Harris she was a little tight to get out but once I did get it out I noticed how heavy the pin was!! It’s ends are abit neat up (from previous not me may I add) so il have one re made but also the dust cap/shims for the swingarm were a mess I ordered some stock ET ones with seals built in they fit the JMC are perfect and will keep shit out there also same thickness so that’s good only issue is hole is smaller so il have engineers making pin drill them out 

Look for "Nylos" seals on Simplybearings web site next time you need something like this.

[Duckndive]

8 hours ago, Tony Nitrous said:

That makes a lot of sense, and directly related to why the latest class dominating Pro Stock bikes in the US are now running full aftermarket billet motors / cases etc. There’s never been a better normally aspirated engine than the 1135E but they were just consuming too many new and used 40 year old parts. Theres only so many out there. The rules let them change to a full aftermarket engine because of how close to the original design it was. 

There has been a lot of controversy in NHRA Pro-Stock ever since the V&H 4 valve Billet HD. a few years back..

Matt Smith has been very vocal over the current V&H Teams Motor and there "Slow" supply of parts & spares to other Teams in Pro Stock "especially the quick ones"

NHRA were also very slow "like over half a season" before adding weight to the V&H Bike  

Oooh yeah V&H are an NHRA partner ..........ODD that 

[Allspeeds]

I’m getting into this air cooled lark the more I learn about them the more my power figures rise!

[imago]

4 hours ago, Allspeeds said:

I’m getting into this air cooled lark the more I learn about them the more my power figures rise!

So, the crank. I thought I may as well put the update in here.

Manky looking thing that it was  bearings all good, it's tru, and the big end thrusts are all within tolerance. Little ends need a clean up, along with the rest if it and it should be good to go.

The taper was another matter 

Gave it all a first pass clean and aside from the surface rust it's had a bit of a spin moment.

On to the lathe to knock the ridges off as fortunately most of it looks to be transfer from the stator. Then touch it up with a stone and I reckon we can put this one on the 'saved' list. All that'll need doing is to lap the stator onto the taper for a final finish, but that needs to be the stator that'll be going on it.  

[Allspeeds]

Thanks Larry I’m just pleased it’s not as bad as it indeed looked also I was concerned on the taper of ware the crank seal sits was poor but looking at that there’s no pits and it was tight to remove so fingers crossed, hopefully the little ends will clean up to then a general clean and possibly weld it up? 

[Allspeeds]

I suppose that in insight the crank would be a candidate for ice blasting not that i know anyone with one you wouldn’t have to worry about media exposure n the bearings then 

[imago]

17 minutes ago, Allspeeds said:

I suppose that in insight the crank would be a candidate for ice blasting not that i know anyone with one you wouldn’t have to worry about media exposure n the bearings then 

I find it's better to just clean them up by hand after a go through the heated parts wash tbh. Scotchbrite pads, penetrating oil and elbow grease get everything you need to, and it doesn't take much longer as you save time blowing it through to make sure that there's no media left in them.

The danger with any sort of pressure cleaning is not only the media but that you can shift a little bit of crap from somewhere and blast it into an oil way where it wedges.

Cases are fine as they're much easier to check and clear as the galleries and drillings don't have so many twists and turns and are larger dia.

[Allspeeds]

28 minutes ago, imago said:

I find it's better to just clean them up by hand after a go through the heated parts wash tbh. Scotchbrite pads, penetrating oil and elbow grease get everything you need to, and it doesn't take much longer as you save time blowing it through to make sure that there's no media left in them.

The danger with any sort of pressure cleaning is not only the media but that you can shift a little bit of crap from somewhere and blast it into an oil way where it wedges.

Cases are fine as they're much easier to check and clear as the galleries and drillings don't have so many twists and turns and are larger dia.

It’s left in your capable hands buddy  so far so good 

[Allspeeds]

Onto the next stage

casings washed and full stripped ready to take to vapour blasting I want them black wich is a shame because who ever painted them did do a nice job haven’t found any nasty breaks or cracks so that’s good fowlers have all the seals and bearings il need do that’s good 

[Allspeeds]

I’ve put an add in wanted does anyone have a good 2nd and 5th input shaft gears? Number 4/7 in picture 

[Duckndive]

1 hour ago, Allspeeds said:

I’ve put an add in wanted does anyone have a good 2nd and 5th input shaft gears? Number 4/7 in picture 

may be worth ringing Mechele at Robinsons as they have been listing loads of stuff for older bikes on Ebog 

 

[Allspeeds]

19 minutes ago, Duckndive said:

may be worth ringing Mechele at Robinsons as they have been listing loads of stuff for older bikes on Ebog 

 

Il give her an ask 

[Allspeeds]

Got sorted with a new rear shock off Maxton should be built in a few weeks opted for the RT rather the GP as I use for racing still top spec and adjustment just less fine adjustments on the valves gone with remote cylinder so it’s in keeping with the bike il use original billet mounts

[Allspeeds]

Dropped front wheel off to be coated as il probably use it to start with but H spec Dymags will be the end choice the EBC discs looK practically new put have surface rust on I’m hoping to get them spun in a lathe to clean them up NOT skim just clean and remove that hod awful orange on them! Just Why! Put the paint can down man! 

[imago]

Meanwhile in Redditch, an early start and back onto cleaning up the crank. Little ends before, and after using some BDX and a brass 12 bore cleaning brush on a small drill.

[Allspeeds]

Hopefully no pits 

[imago]

19 minutes ago, Allspeeds said:

Hopefully no pits 

Some staining and very minor pitting on a small area or two. About at the limit of acceptable, but I'd say it's good to go.

Pretty much done with the clean up now so I'll give you a call or you can call me at some point today and have a chat. 

[Duckndive]

2 hours ago, imago said:

Meanwhile in Redditch, an early start and back onto cleaning up the crank. Little ends before, and after using some BDX and a brass 12 bore cleaning brush on a small drill.

There was a bloke on youtube raving about how good that stuff was 

[imago]

45 minutes ago, Duckndive said:

There was a bloke on youtube raving about how good that stuff was 

I don't go in for the "best stuff ever" bollocks that gets tagged onto stuff. But, it really is way better than anything I've used before. WD40 isn't penetrating oil anyway, but 3 in 1, Duck oil etc won't touch this stuff. The other thing about it is that you only need to use a little squirt instead of hosing it on.

The PITA is it's online order only from Nor'n Ir'n with a minimum order of two cans so I got a case of it and sell the odd can from the workshop to people who don't use much or often. Couriers don't like aerosols though so it's collect only.

[imago]

This crank while perfectly serviceable for a stock road bike is a bit near the knuckle for fast road or track use. To save a bit of time rather than rebuild this one I had one already done ready to fit. 

[Duckndive]

57 minutes ago, imago said:

I don't go in for the "best stuff ever" bollocks that gets tagged onto stuff. But, it really is way better than anything I've used before. WD40 isn't penetrating oil anyway, but 3 in 1, Duck oil etc won't touch this stuff. The other thing about it is that you only need to use a little squirt instead of hosing it on.

The PITA is it's online order only from Nor'n Ir'n with a minimum order of two cans so I got a case of it and sell the odd can from the workshop to people who don't use much or often. Couriers don't like aerosols though so it's collect only.

TBH never heard of it until i seen a bloke rave in a video and passed it off as freebie can big up ... then you had a can in pic  hence comment