boost creep

[badger]

Sooooooooooo, 
My internal waste gate is set too 16psi but it doesn't stay there long! It will just keep going up and up. I have an IHI vf hybrid and i've read this is a common-ish problem. Anyone else had an issue and what was a resolve? Im assuming an external waste gate will be best? I do have a bit of a fitment issue as the WG actuator arm sits pretty much in my oil filter and has twice stabbed a hole in it in 1500 miles! 

[MeanBean49]

42 minutes ago, badger said:

Sooooooooooo, 
My internal waste gate is set too 16psi but it doesn't stay there long! It will just keep going up and up. I have an IHI vf hybrid and i've read this is a common-ish problem. Anyone else had an issue and what was a resolve? Im assuming an external waste gate will be best? I do have a bit of a fitment issue as the WG actuator arm sits pretty much in my oil filter and has twice stabbed a hole in it in 1500 miles! 

What sort of hybrid is it?

I ditched my standard actuator and replaced with a kingawa one, never had any problems at all with boost creep.

You Could have a pin hole on the actuator diaphragm. 

Also swapping to aftermarket one allowed me to move it round so didnt foul on anything

Edited November 18, 2020 by MeanBean49

[Arttu]

I had that kind problem with my IHI VF34 too. Enlarging the wastegate hole to the maximum and shaping it better helped a lot. If I recall correctly with that it was able to hold about 0.8-0.9 bar minimum boost steadily. Later on I replaced the flapper valve with bigger one and enlarged the hole even more which allowed a bit lower steady boost.

I'm also using a Kinugawa actuator.

[badger]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:14 PM, MeanBean49 said:

What sort of hybrid is it?

I ditched my standard actuator and replaced with a kingawa one, never had any problems at all with boost creep.

You Could have a pin hole on the actuator diaphragm. 

Also swapping to aftermarket one allowed me to move it round so didnt foul on anything

I've had a total mental block on what models they were! I ask dave if he remembers and he said
Either a 23 “ 28 or 29. I thought it was a 34 and something. It is on a stock actuator. I havent checked the diaphragm in it for holes bit I will. 

The arm coming out the turbo connecting to the valve is whats in the way but I've seen people machining this down rewelding. 

Are the kingawa actuators OK then? If I can so the above you you've not had issues would resolve a bunch of problems! 

Thanks!

 

[MeanBean49]

1 hour ago, badger said:

I've had a total mental block on what models they were! I ask dave if he remembers and he said
Either a 23 “ 28 or 29. I thought it was a 34 and something. It is on a stock actuator. I havent checked the diaphragm in it for holes bit I will. 

The arm coming out the turbo connecting to the valve is whats in the way but I've seen people machining this down rewelding. 

Are the kingawa actuators OK then? If I can so the above you you've not had issues would resolve a bunch of problems! 

Thanks!

 

Yeah kingawa actuators are really good, and are rebuildable, just got a new diaphragm for mine as it split after 4 years. 

VF23 is what was on mine, great turbo. Cant really hybrid them in a way that will make them any better, just worse

[badger]

1 hour ago, MeanBean49 said:

Yeah kingawa actuators are really good, and are rebuildable, just got a new diaphragm for mine as it split after 4 years. 

VF23 is what was on mine, great turbo. Cant really hybrid them in a way that will make them any better, just worse

OK. Again going off what dave recommended and put together. 

I'll have a see if there's any identification on it. 

I'll probably pick up at some point then. Sounds like a good solution and a lot cheaper and easier than  an external set up!

[MeanBean49]

51 minutes ago, badger said:

OK. Again going off what dave recommended and put together. 

I'll have a see if there's any identification on it. 

I'll probably pick up at some point then. Sounds like a good solution and a lot cheaper and easier than  an external set up!

I dont know much about others, just 22, 23 and 24 lol

Yeah its a decent cheap thing to try, also easy to change spring on if you want to change base pressure. They also work really well with a cheap electronic boost solenoid so you can set boost to whatever you want, whilst your riding too 

[Reinhoud]

On 11/19/2020 at 4:32 AM, badger said:

Sooooooooooo, 
My internal waste gate is set too 16psi but it doesn't stay there long! It will just keep going up and up. I have an IHI vf hybrid and i've read this is a common-ish problem. Anyone else had an issue and what was a resolve? Im assuming an external waste gate will be best? I do have a bit of a fitment issue as the WG actuator arm sits pretty much in my oil filter and has twice stabbed a hole in it in 1500 miles! 

I'm more curious, where can you go flat out for that long?

[badger]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:03 AM, Reinhoud said:

I'm more curious, where can you go flat out for that long?

Deffo not the a30 and there aren't any roads towards the lizard or st.Austell with massive straights and no turn offs 
Impressive that 3rd gear roll ons never see above 70mph 

[badger]

Digging this back up again, waste gate actuator was replaced for a kingawa one. Massive improvement on how boost comes on and creep BUT problem is still there. Is boring out the waste gate as straight forward a job as YouTube would have me believe? Anything complicated in pulling the turbo apart? 

Thanks guys 

[Gixer1460]

It's not the pulling apart that's difficult - its the re-assembly that's the tricky bit unless you take it for rebalancing!

Youtuber's manage to fuck up anything but say it with such knowing authority that people believe them! I know how to do it and always let a shop

that specialises do it - having a  potentially unbalanced wheel spinning at 150k rpm just below the jewels made that decision easy!

[Arttu]

What? You don't need to take apart the wheels from the shaft to port the wastegate hole. So no need for balancing.

Just unbolt the turbine housing and knock it off from the ceneter assembly. In real life it might be a bit more difficult since these are often pretty rusty and seized together.

[badger]

8 hours ago, Arttu said:

What? You don't need to take apart the wheels from the shaft to port the wastegate hole. So no need for balancing.

Just unbolt the turbine housing and knock it off from the ceneter assembly. In real life it might be a bit more difficult since these are often pretty rusty and seized together.

Never taken a turbo apart what so ever so wanted to ask some grown ups 1st! Cool cool, that sounds pretty straight forward! 

[Gixer1460]

11 hours ago, Arttu said:

What? You don't need to take apart the wheels from the shaft to port the wastegate hole. So no need for balancing.

Just unbolt the turbine housing and knock it off from the ceneter assembly. In real life it might be a bit more difficult since these are often pretty rusty and seized together.

I thought these VVT turbo's were somewhat more complicated than just removing the turbine housing? And if you can't remove same, the thought of cast iron dust from grinding being fired at the bearings won't promote a lengthy lifespan - hence the disassembly answer, but I will bow to those more knowledgeable!

[MeanBean49]

1 hour ago, Gixer1460 said:

I thought these VVT turbo's were somewhat more complicated than just removing the turbine housing? And if you can't remove same, the thought of cast iron dust from grinding being fired at the bearings won't promote a lengthy lifespan - hence the disassembly answer, but I will bow to those more knowledgeable!

They arent VVT, split down to inlet housing, turbine housing and core pretty easily, apart from sometimes being a bit tight with corrosion. Good long penetrating oil soak and gentle persuasion usually sorts it. 

[clivegto]

Slightly exaggerated but the bit I have marked in silver can be removed. Not a good idea to remove to much material at the hinge side as it can jam the door when closing. 

[badger]

34 minutes ago, clivegto said:

Slightly exaggerated but the bit I have marked in silver can be removed. Not a good idea to remove to much material at the hinge side as it can jam the door when closing. 

Awesome! 

Much appreciated, thanks Clive!

[MeanBean49]

39 minutes ago, badger said:

Awesome! 

Much appreciated, thanks Clive!

Have a good look in the housing too mate, they are very prone to cracking around the the wastegate, maybe got somthing like that affecting things

[MeanBean49]

1 hour ago, clivegto said:

Slightly exaggerated but the bit I have marked in silver can be removed. Not a good idea to remove to much material at the hinge side as it can jam the door when closing. 

Might want to give that a good clean up if its yours mate, looks like its not sealing, 

[clivegto]

21 minutes ago, MeanBean49 said:

Might want to give that a good clean up if its yours mate, looks like its not sealing, 

Spare vf23 mate.