Dyna 2000 ignitions

[Foz]

I'm out for the time being, got another set of flatslides to pay for 

[1340banditpaul]

I'm interested in 1 

[MeanBean49]

1 minute ago, 1340banditpaul said:

I'm interested in 1 

See add in for sale mate ;-)

[markfoggy]

I'm gathering pennies just now, as well, but....

They do a starter loom kit, which would save a bit of faffing about for me.

I'm tight with where I can put the ecu, having the thing fully plugged up and then routing away from the install, out to the rest of the components, would be a blessing for me. 

Any idea what you could land one for?

[Gammaboy]

On 4/23/2018 at 1:29 AM, markfoggy said:

Ok, so how do you get a TPS bolted onto a set of carbs?

Has been bothering me on which Igni to buy.

Slot a RGV250 TPS into the middle of the throttle cable?

[Gixer1460]

5 hours ago, Gammaboy said:

Slot a RGV250 TPS into the middle of the throttle cable?

Never seen that - more info? Piccies would be useful.

Can see this being useful in multitude of applications.

[MeanBean49]

10 hours ago, markfoggy said:

I'm gathering pennies just now, as well, but....

They do a starter loom kit, which would save a bit of faffing about for me.

I'm tight with where I can put the ecu, having the thing fully plugged up and then routing away from the install, out to the rest of the components, would be a blessing for me. 

Any idea what you could land one for?

What do you mean a starter loom kit? Full version CDI with lead and loom adaptor is about £150, or down to about £140 if i get a few together.

What motor you want one for, wiring is dead simple. You can do an oil cooled loom with about 5 wires.

[markfoggy]

That's the one for TCPi4 off Ignitech site.

[dupersunc]

The basic loom is abou £12 from memory, or just the connector is £6.

The basic loom does make a cheap and simple start for a chassis loom.

[markfoggy]

I'm looking to have some aftermarket clocks that do a bit, plus the option of a quick-shifter sounds fun.

Fascinated how to get a TPS onto a set  of K's or Mickey T's.

Some of the boys in Classic Endurance were running Ignitechs and getting strong results for drive using custom maps, certainly having an advantage over a fixed ignition curve that I have a little familiarity with setting the carbs up around. That was on GSX.

I'm intending to run 1157/Blandit with lots of toys (one day) so am interested in how complicated you could make it, yet get something that runs beautifully.

I like the idea of something a bit lairy, but easy to live with, if you get what I mean.

 

[MeanBean49]

39 minutes ago, markfoggy said:

I'm looking to have some aftermarket clocks that do a bit, plus the option of a quick-shifter sounds fun.

Fascinated how to get a TPS onto a set  of K's or Mickey T's.

Some of the boys in Classic Endurance were running Ignitechs and getting strong results for drive using custom maps, certainly having an advantage over a fixed ignition curve that I have a little familiarity with setting the carbs up around. That was on GSX.

I'm intending to run 1157/Blandit with lots of toys (one day) so am interested in how complicated you could make it, yet get something that runs beautifully.

I like the idea of something a bit lairy, but easy to live with, if you get what I mean.

 

Thats whats so good about them, start with a basic 2d map get it all running then add wires and turn on the functions as you build it up.

Or turn them off again as you please

[markfoggy]

 I'll be in touch.

Price on the loom bit seems to be 7 Euro if purchased with a box, which seems implausibly cheap, hence I thought I would get a grown up to ask.

Please. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by markfoggy

[MeanBean49]

1 hour ago, markfoggy said:

 I'll be in touch.

Price on the loom bit seems to be 7 Euro if purchased with a box, which seems implausibly cheap, hence I thought I would get a grown up to ask.

Please. 

Looks like the loom bit is just the normal connector with longer wires to cut down. 

[markfoggy]

Ah, so a TCPi4 comes in the box with with a Loom plug and some wire already hanging out the back of the thing. Their site really does not make that clear.

Ok, I'm in Budapest next weekend and my funds are going towards hanging out of the back of something a bit more attractive than a black plastic box.

Upon my return, I will enter into discussions with yourself or Dunc.

 

[MeanBean49]

3 minutes ago, markfoggy said:

Ah, so a TCPi4 comes in the box with with a Loom plug and some wire already hanging out the back of the thing. Their site really does not make that clear.

Ok, I'm in Budapest next weekend and my funds are going towards hanging out of the back of something a bit more attractive than a black plastic box.

Upon my return, I will enter into discussions with yourself or Dunc.

 

Yeah they come with a plug with about 8 inches of wire for each of the basic wires and you get a bag of pins to add the wires into the plug for the extra functions you want to use

[markfoggy]

[nlovien]

would be neat if you could write up a bit of blurb on why being able to map relative to throttle position / load as an alternative to a typical fixed ( full throttle ) map system - especially on the older air cooled motors / combustion chambers - suspect there's  more to be gained than what is initially obvious

be nice to see this evolve where the topic of map exchanges become part of it

 

[markfoggy]

Not something that you are going to see on a Dyno.

I've only seen it on a stop watch and heard  'He just comes off the corners so good'.

And to be honest I think that was without a TPS. 

[MeanBean49]

42 minutes ago, markfoggy said:

Not something that you are going to see on a Dyno.

I've only seen it on a stop watch and heard  'He just comes off the corners so good'.

And to be honest I think that was without a TPS. 

You would see it on dyno because you can see the throttle position live time as you run, makes it easy to hold constant throttle at exact positions, You can do say back to back 50% throttle runs with different maps. Then 60% and so on.

To be honest im only just starting to play with this side of them properly myself now. Im going to have a propper day on dyno with my turbo and see if i can do a propper 3d map

[MeanBean49]

3 hours ago, nlovien said:

would be neat if you could write up a bit of blurb on why being able to map relative to throttle position / load as an alternative to a typical fixed ( full throttle ) map system - especially on the older air cooled motors / combustion chambers - suspect there's  more to be gained than what is initially obvious

be nice to see this evolve where the topic of map exchanges become part of it

 

Will do when ive had time to have a propper play on dyno. Ive only used a simple 2d map up to now

[Solcambs]

 I think when we did the RG570 motor with 3D ignition we started with standard. Ran 100% throttle and optimised for that with fuelling and ignition curve. Then ran 50% and played with the ignition line for that. Then just blended the 3D map between. 

On the road there was a noticeable change in engine eagerness associated with 50% or higher throttle. Ultimately - it produced amazing power for an RG was very 4 stroke in nature ... or rather there was no obvious 2 stroke it so it was such an easy bike to ride on the track. Hang on.. pretty sure I have a graph somewhere.

Here you go ... 

Standard map and adjusted 3D ignition map compared after one dyno day.

[Gixer1460]

13 hours ago, markfoggy said:

Not something that you are going to see on a Dyno.

I've only seen it on a stop watch and heard  'He just comes off the corners so good'.

And to be honest I think that was without a TPS. 

That is about as naive a comment as possible! Good dyno's and good dyno operators will load and hold an engine and make adjustments whilst mapping both fuel and ignition - you see results - pro's and con's in real time. My bike was mapped with 46mm bore TB's - try doing that by 'seat of the pants' tuning!

[nlovien]

15 hours ago, markfoggy said:

Not something that you are going to see on a Dyno.

I've only seen it on a stop watch and heard  'He just comes off the corners so good'.

And to be honest I think that was without a TPS. 

If you have a well tuned engine on a std ignition @ WOT then stick a 3D ignition in then you may not see any dyno improvement - @ WOT - i.e. you could say your not going to get a bigger pub talk dyno figure, however for most of us we spend very little real time @WOT or only when its safe to do so ( i.e. down the straight ) - getting the drive onto the straight, or where most of us are = the part load condition that we typically don't tune for - kinda daft really when you think about it - now we can and what you describe "he just comes off the corners so good" is part of it - limiting negative tuning due to - knock / pinging is another good one - you don't now need to hold back the whole engine op. range due to say a relatively small rpm window in the midrange

If they are not using a TPS - I think you can still map via an air mass sensor, might even be a better solution dunno but either way, the whole thing is based around the ECU now knowing more than RPM input ( 2D) - it now knows RPM + some form engine load input (3D)

some great feedback ref: use of dyno - can imagine this could put some folks off the idea ( idea of cost / hassle / fear of imminent engine destruction )- it is also easy to play with this mapping via seat on bum + ears ( for tinkling sounds ) - ok maybe not to the same level of gain via a dyno - but definitely better than not having it at all, best in order to get the mass's converted is the sharing of proven base maps - maybe knocked back a few degrees as a precaution 

[markfoggy]

3 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

That is about as naive a comment as possible! Good dyno's and good dyno operators will load and hold an engine and make adjustments whilst mapping both fuel and ignition - you see results - pro's and con's in real time. My bike was mapped with 46mm bore TB's - try doing that by 'seat of the pants' tuning!

My bad....was meaning that you are not going to see how well mannered and tractable a 3D mapped bike is by looking at a simple Dyno trace.

 

Looks like Keihin do a set of 41mm with TPS, I'm guessing that a side pull conversion on any set of carbs could be modded to rig a TPS in there.

This is all going to take some thought.

 

[Gixer1460]

1 hour ago, markfoggy said:

Looks like Keihin do a set of 41mm with TPS, I'm guessing that a side pull conversion on any set of carbs could be modded to rig a TPS in there.

This is all going to take some thought.

 

Funnily enough I picked up a set of RS40's that came off a race bike and were fitted with a TPS - obviously retrofit but proves with ingenuity anything is possible.