Dane Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 I need some pointers please, I want to build a turbo katana, maybe either katana motor or GSXr lump. what I want to do is run feul injection on the bike, now what would be a good start on the injection side off things? on the inlet I want to machine my own inlet that will accommodate a charge cooling system so I don't have a huge intercooler up front,would it be better to make busa throttles to fit the inlet so I don't have to worry about the location of the injectors or do I run one throttle on this setup? The bike will be mainly used on the road for fun.. Quote
Gixer1460 Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 Forget the charge cooler idea - to be any good it needs to have reasonable size and also the main ingredient - water....... both of which, are or will be in sort supply on a Katana! If you do want to run mega power / boost on the road a std air to air IC has been shown to work - I used one myself. Otherwise the turbo and EFI installs are fairly common on Oldskool - do a search and read. Quote
Arttu Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 In addition of that pinned EFI setup thread Bruteforce's project thread is worth of checking to get and idea about EFI installation process: Some time ago here was also discussion about engine choice between air and oil cooled for turbo project: Quote
Dane Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 21 hours ago, Gixer1460 said: Forget the charge cooler idea - to be any good it needs to have reasonable size and also the main ingredient - water....... both of which, are or will be in sort supply on a Katana! If you do want to run mega power / boost on the road a std air to air IC has been shown to work - I used one myself. Otherwise the turbo and EFI installs are fairly common on Oldskool - do a search and read. thanks guys for the input. I will be going the charge cooler route, I haven't made up my mind on the motor choice, but I think it will be a good build for interest sake,Im not a fan of fabricated ,welded parts so I will give it a go at machining the complete setup from billet, Quote
Gixer1460 Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Not dissing your abilities but are you aware of what a charge cooler contains? Its an air to water / cooling fluid intercooler ie a radiator within a fluid filled box! If you have the ability to machine that from a block of alloy then i'm sure NASA will be calling soon! You could be thinking of a plenum that contains a heat exchanger ie. the air passes through a cool water radiator that takes heat from the air into the water to be re cooled elsewhere - still plenty of fabrication and welding involved. And you still haven't addressed the fact, a air or oil cooled bike ......... has no water for cooling! Sure it can be added with the extra radiator, pipework and pump but it certainly won't be less bulky or more elegant than a simple air to air IC! Not knocking ambition - try it .................but do feel like you'll be wasting your time and effort. 2 Quote
Dane Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Gixer1460 said: Not dissing your abilities but are you aware of what a charge cooler contains? Its an air to water / cooling fluid intercooler ie a radiator within a fluid filled box! If you have the ability to machine that from a block of alloy then i'm sure NASA will be calling soon! You could be thinking of a plenum that contains a heat exchanger ie. the air passes through a cool water radiator that takes heat from the air into the water to be re cooled elsewhere - still plenty of fabrication and welding involved. And you still haven't addressed the fact, a air or oil cooled bike ......... has no water for cooling! Sure it can be added with the extra radiator, pipework and pump but it certainly won't be less bulky or more elegant than a simple air to air IC! Not knocking ambition - try it .................but do feel like you'll be wasting your time and effort. would never say you dissing my abilities, and thank you for your input, I used charge coolers on several turbo charged cars Ive built, just thaught it would be a nice challenge. look im still giving it serious thaught on what you've said, and a lot makes sence to me, let me give it serious consideration what route to take, 1 Quote
vizman Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 gotta' be an air cooled motor though, for the ultimate kudos Quote
no class Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 ...... air to air and be done with it . I don't care about how many "cars" you've done..... cars are for fags...... they all contain "coooooolant"...... oil cooled gsxr's dooooooon't...... 5 Quote
Gixer1460 Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Well that was diplomatic ......................not! LOL! 3 Quote
Samikoo Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 19 hours ago, no class said: ...... air to air and be done with it . I don't care about how many "cars" you've done..... cars are for fags...... they all contain "coooooolant"...... oil cooled gsxr's dooooooon't...... Yes, and I don't think anyone is actually using engine coolant to "cool" charged air... I mean, coolant runs usually 90 degrees celcius, so what good would a heat exchanger do if the cooling media was that hot? All the cars(and other vehicles) I've seen that had water-to-air gharge cooling had a separate coolant system for the charge cooling, including pump, lines, charge cooler and another heat exhanger(to cool the coolant). Making all that fit to a bike would be a bit of a challenge, to say the least. Quote
Gixer1460 Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 Actually, at the sort of boost you'd be running to make it worthwhile - 90 deg engine coolant temp would be a bonus! Intake air temps can hit well over 120 degrees closer to 150+C at just 2 bar boost - all subject to turbo efficiencies of course. Quote
Samikoo Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gixer1460 said: Actually, at the sort of boost you'd be running to make it worthwhile - 90 deg engine coolant temp would be a bonus! Intake air temps can hit well over 120 degrees closer to 150+C at just 2 bar boost - all subject to turbo efficiencies of course. Yes, but if there is the possibility of using 20-40C water to cool it, why not. Air-to-air with 20C ambient temperature might drop the charge air from 167C to 67C, calculated with a 70 percent efficiency. That's not taking heat soak into consideration. Not that you could fit an air-to-air cooler that big on bike, but still. But hey, people are free to do as they please, and using engine coolant would be better than nothing with those manly boost figures. I also think one should always try to use charge cooling to fight off detonation and to keep things cooler inside the engine. Like for a 15psi (1bar) 1200cc engine the addition of a 70% efficient charge cooler with a 0.5psi pressure drop would yield 40 additional horses, and the temperature of the air going in to the engine would be 65C cooler than without one. But, as we are dealing with motorcycles, space is very limited, and a cooler that's able to flow that amount of air is not small. And also the time spent with the driver holding full throttle won't be that long either... So, you kinda need one, but you really don't. Edited March 24, 2018 by Samikoo Calculator speculations Quote
Captain Chaos Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Samikoo said: as we are dealing with motorcycles, space is very limited that's why sidecars were invented 3 Quote
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