1100g or 1100f that is the question

[Swirl]

Thought I best start my on thread instead of hacking someone else, I've got both gsx1100f and 1100g engines rear wheels looms everything I need, I'm going to build another chop, with capacity for a turbo in the future, I've bought a kooter browns softail frame properly registered on a Q plate so that's sorted, I've also got a volusia spoked rear shaft drive wheel and front 21" wheel, I'm leaning towards the 1100g for all year round use and be a nice camo look, any input welcomed, bear in mind I have got all the bits for both, picture of new chop frame and below my old gs750 hardtail, to old and broken for a hardtail now

[vizman]

the 'f' would be the much easier option

[Swirl]

4 minutes ago, vizman said:

the 'f' would be the much easier option

Easier is not necessarily better

[vizman]

....and the better option.

[Swirl]

32 minutes ago, vizman said:

....and the better option.

what about turboing at a later date. lower power G or the more power F unsure on compression ratio, but you would assume the G is less CR than the F

[Captain Chaos]

I wonder how well a spoked wheel would cope with turbo power.

[Swirl]

both 10.0-1 cr but one is 136hp and the other round a 100hp so anyone know how they reduced the horses on a G

[Captain Chaos]

4 minutes ago, Swirl said:

unsure on compression ratio,

both 10,0 : 1

[suzook12]

What primary does the g have? "F's are reputably not so good for turbo's as the helical gears try to jack themselves apart under severe load...... Where this would occur in the horsepower ladder I don't know but is a turbo sub 200rwbhp worth the effort??

[Swirl]

3 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

I wonder how well a spoked wheel would cope with turbo power.

hadn't thought of that, but a volusia is a lump of a machine how torquey is the v twin

[Swirl]

4 minutes ago, suzook12 said:

What primary does the g have? "F's are reputably not so good for turbo's as the helical gears try to jack themselves apart under severe load...... Where this would occur in the horsepower ladder I don't know but is a turbo sub 200rwbhp worth the effort??

has a b12 got a different box in then, as b12 seems to be a favoured choice for turboing

Edited September 30, 2017 by Swirl

[Captain Chaos]

Power difference probably in cam profile.

The F has 34mm carbs and the G has 36mm ones. F carbs (metal tops) are very well suited for turbo use. Helical primary gear is only a problem on glued together crankshafts, not on one piece oilcooled ones (according to FBM).

Volusia is 800cc right? Or is there also a 1500cc version?

[suzook12]

2 minutes ago, Swirl said:

both 10.0-1 cr but one is 136hp and the other round a 100hp so anyone know how they reduced the horses on a G

Don't know where they get those figures from, but both the f and the gsxr11 m are rated 130 at rear wheel?? A really good m may just squeeze that, but an f on 34mm carbs?? Bearing in mind we're talking fresh from factory here. Would be interesting to see what any dyno guys have to say on that...

[Swirl]

800cc, volusia

[Captain Chaos]

1 minute ago, Swirl said:

800cc, volusia

I've had more powerfull farts

[Swirl]

1 minute ago, Captain Chaos said:

I've had more powerfull farts

[suzook12]

6 minutes ago, Swirl said:

has a b12 got a different box in then, as b12 seems to be a favoured choice for turboing

B12 has the same primary as the gsx-r's, straight cut. Helical cut gears are used for quiet running as the gears are in constant contact so no chatter, straight cut for performance. The gearboxes are all straight cut. The B12 has first 2 gears undercut as does the m and n models and it's CR lends itself more readily to turbo use without mods, although the clutch is the weak link in the chain here. The F clutch is very similar to the slabby and parts can be used to build the hybrid slingy/slabby mod except the basket because of the primary gear...

 

[vizman]

41 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

I wonder how well a spoked wheel would cope with turbo power.

the rear tyre will let go before the spokes do.....

[vizman]

.....and you a'int getting many horses out of either engine on standard pistons

[Swirl]

Or sell them both and buy a b12 and some pistons

[clivegto]

5 hours ago, Swirl said:

Or sell them both and buy a b12 and some pistons

And a lock up clutch.

[suzook12]

Done a bit of searching and seems G clutch has 74 teeth, so not interchangeable

6 hours ago, Swirl said:

Or sell them both and buy a b12 and some pistons

What you need to decide, is where you want to go with your bike. What sort of performance do you want? What sort of power can that chassis handle? Can the suspension handle the power? Theres a fair chance you will need the shock re-valving to cope with a turbo, you will no doubt have limited clearance as it is, being a chop, the amount of squat a turbo or nitrous motor can produce is a lot..... Bearing in mind its quite easy to see 150 ponies from a 1216 motor without the added cost of EFI or turbo. A basic blow through system should put you easily over 175 ponies, get it well sorted and you will be seeing well over 200 and generating an awful lot of torque. I know we all have that mentality of too much is never enough, but for a road bike it really is.... 150-160 real world ponies in a good chassis with good brakes really is enough, at least, that's my opinion. But I do question whether with that chassis if even that amount of power could be dealt with. You could easily end up with something that really is unrideable. Not trying to piss on your fireworks, its your bike and your rules, just trying to provide some food for though....

[Swirl]

This is what I am after constructive input, thank you, the frame was built in 1991 by kooter browns of Stoke, to house a fj1200 motor, the guy I bought it from had a fj motor in the frame and if I'm not mistaken they throw out well over a 100 horses, I'm after a usable machine of 200bhp not after joining the 350bhp brigade with kev, just after something different, I've got a spare 1045 z9 motor with forged pistons big valve head and welded crank I could put in there and turbo,  engine wise I don't think I'm going to use either oil boiler, sell a few bits and back to the drawing board

[suzook12]

Fj around 110 rwbhp, some way short of where you're looking.... I would go with a lump that can reach 150 reasonably easily, then going turbo. Taking the power up in gradual steps will show any shortcomings in the package before it becomes unmanageable. Suzooks and Kwaks seem to have the most tuning parts readily available. The more horses a motor makes aspirated, the less you have to do to it to reach your target. A busa or zx12 motor will get there with consumate ease and less boost than a mid 80's designed motor, but you then have water cooling to deal with....Turbo sizing will be very important, too small and you'll be generating too much heat, too big and you'll struggle to spool it up. You also need to decide whether you want draw thru or blow thru. Draw through being the simplest form, but I'm let to believe you need a turbo with carbon seals? Blow through you can use a stock motor and carb package..... Plenty to think about

 

[Swirl]

I won't be using a fj lump, or anything hideous like water cooled, might have to keep an eye out for a bandit lump, draw thru and blow thru is something I need to research