Turbo bandit

[Arttu]

Advance numbers at high rpm and boost looks quite ok for me. But like Gixer1460 said you should have more advance at mid rpm. Typically advance stays quite flat from 3000-4000rpm upwards.

Then about placing the RPM/MAP bins. I would place the lowest RPM column just below the idle rpm, like 1000rpm and next one somewhat above idle, like 1400-1500rpm. This allows you to play with advance around idle to get idle more stable. For the rest of rpm columns I would try to get a bit more resolution between idle and 3000-4000rpm where advance changes quickly. Everything above that can have more coarse spacing. For MAP you probably won't see figures below 60kPa anywhere else than on coasting. So I would have lowest row at 40-50kPa and use freed up rows for better resolution at upper range.

[luke2152]

Something like this?

[Arttu]

Yep, looks ok for starting point.

For comparison here is one that I made some time ago. Low comp 1168cc GSX-R with intercooler. Started with stock ignition curve that I found somewhere, added a little to vacuum areas and took off something from boost areas. The boost area is optimized on dyno up to 180kPa. Everything else is still that original guesstimate but it was working ok.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Arttu

[Gixer1460]

I knew Arttu would have a map somewhere - & as he said above, once over the cruise area, the numbers can virtually flatline. If you are brave and have a dyno that can hold at load and rpm, you can play with the advance to optimise although most dyno's don't like doing it as a) it takes time to do and b) it really stresses the engine ie. max load for up to a minute at a time - its scary!

[luke2152]

Its aliiiiiive!

 

[luke2152]

Have run it for about 20 minutes and it seems to be running very very hot.  I'm talking 150 degrees (temp sensor in the bung in the side of the head) after 10 minutes of fast idling (about 2000rpm).  Surely thats not normal?  I tired running it with the garden hose spraying the oil cooler and it was still reading 125 degrees.

[Arttu]

Congrats!

150 degrees C or F? 150C sounds quite high indeed. Although the engine gets pretty hot quickly when run without air flow. Are you sure that your temp sensor is accurately calibrated for that temp range? If you have done calibration for lower temps then there might be some substantial error on hot end.

[Captain Chaos]

8 hours ago, luke2152 said:

150 degrees (temp sensor in the bung in the side of the head)

that' normal, it's the hottest part of the engine when it's running. Install the temp sensor somewhere in the sump and it will show the oil temp.

[luke2152]

That was 150c - and measured off the sensor for my acewell digital dash (which might not be 100% accurate but shouldn't be far off).  However I guess its measuring the cylinder head temp as much as the oil.  Will try an measure at the sump.  Whats an acceptable temperature for sump oil in traffic?

[Gixer1460]

If it was 150 at the sump you are on the edge of reliability life - ok if a full synthetic and regular changes but ideally 110 - 120 deg are optimal for mineral or semi synth. Running static just isn't good for the engine - its not under load and is heat soaking in areas not designed for it ie. head over heats while gearbox hardly heats at all!

Edited June 5, 2017 by Gixer1460

[luke2152]

Happy to say that when I moved the temp sensor to the sump the temperature was a much happier (and more stable) 105 degrees or so.  I knew the head was the hottest part but had no idea it was that much hotter.  I put a chain on and took it out for a few laps of the carpark and and even with no tuning adjustments it felt quite well behaved.  My latest problem is the trigger wheel.  It started first time with a well charged battery but its a bastard to start with a half charged battery because at low cranking speeds its having trouble syncing.  I'm thinking I might remove another tooth to make a 35-2 with a more pronounced gap.  But I might pose that question to the megasquirt forum.

[slingy1157]

On 6/5/2017 at 4:23 AM, luke2152 said:

Happy to say that when I moved the temp sensor to the sump the temperature was a much happier (and more stable) 105 degrees or so.  I knew the head was the hottest part but had no idea it was that much hotter.  I put a chain on and took it out for a few laps of the carpark and and even with no tuning adjustments it felt quite well behaved.  My latest problem is the trigger wheel.  It started first time with a well charged battery but its a bastard to start with a half charged battery because at low cranking speeds its having trouble syncing.  I'm thinking I might remove another tooth to make a 35-2 with a more pronounced gap.  But I might pose that question to the megasquirt forum.

That is actually a really good idea. Theres no reason why it couldnt be a like a 36-6 wheel and have 6 missing teeth really. As long the first tooth after the gap is still 5 teeth or more before TDC so it can work out the timing nicely for 1 and 4 it dosnt really matter.

I still like the 36 tooth wheels as it keeps the math all nice and easy with 10deg per tooth and all that and gives really good timing reference to the ecu. And as one of the main issues is sync durring cranking with these then why not make the gap bigger so absolutely unmistakable at cranking. 

You can set it to whatever you want in TS so thats no drama as long as the teeth on the wheel are all the same size and evenly spaced to begin with it dosnt matter how many teeth get removed qithin reason to make the gap.

[luke2152]

Been away overseas for a few weeks so ready to get a little more done.  What I'd do for unlimited free time haha!  Have ground another tooth off the trigger wheel, will see what that does

[luke2152]

Been at it today sorting out the little details - ie. electrics for an mot so nearly ready for the road.  Hopefully this time next week I can get it to make some boost!

With the valve cover breather vented to atmo it does seem to have a lot of blowby - ie visible smoke.  Is that normal on these engines.  Should I do anything about it.  With the air filter straight on the turbo it doesn't really give anywhere to vent it to on the no boost side of the inlet.

[luke2152]

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by luke2152

[no class]

You will need to vent the lower case also..... valve cover vent alone is not enough for a boosted motor .You could mount a catch tank somewhere and all your vent hoses go there ..... that bottle should have a filter on top and a drain plug on the bottom ...... drain the soup every once in a while .

[Gixer1460]

9 minutes ago, no class said:

You will need to vent the lower case also..... valve cover vent alone is not enough for a boosted motor .You could mount a catch tank somewhere and all your vent hoses go there ..... that bottle should have a filter on top and a drain plug on the bottom ...... drain the soup every once in a while .

Indeed good advice - I had std cam cover vent + 1No additional -10 hose from the cam cover with a -10 from centre of clutch cover and -8 from the oil filler, all on a ickle T2 1186 - can't have too many breathers as blow by and case compression blows out gaskets / seals.

[luke2152]

Yep I've got provision for -10 hose where the standard breather used to be and on the clutch cover too.  So I'll do that.  Getting hard to fit all this new plumbing!!

[no class]

Have you sorted the timing for cold starts yet ?  No kick back issues ? 

[luke2152]

Yes removed 1 more tooth from the timing wheel and gave the throttle bodies a sync and it starts perfect every time now.  New battery helps too.

Edited July 10, 2017 by luke2152

[luke2152]

Got it MOT'd today and finally on the road today!  Not sure I'm a fan of that monstrous windscreen but it came with the bike.  First ride taken relatively easy to make sure everything is holding together.  Felt fucking awesome when it went into boost but then starting making odd ticking noise.  Fortunately turned out it had just popped the injector o-ring out.  Not quite sure how to deal with that - injector is from subaru wrx and throttle bodies from gsxr 600 - guess I'll have to make a washer that fits over the nozzle of the injector but holds the o-ring down.  Also have a small oil leak which I can't identify - possibly from starter motor or alternator.  Its collecting between those two.

[Gixer1460]

13 hours ago, luke2152 said:

 Fortunately turned out it had just popped the injector o-ring out.  Not quite sure how to deal with that - injector is from subaru wrx and throttle bodies from gsxr 600 - guess I'll have to make a washer that fits over the nozzle of the injector but holds the o-ring down.

I assume its #2? Its an odd fault as scoobies use as much boost as you likely used so far.

I'd suggest replacing the O rings firstly as I can't see trying to fit washer retainers being a solution.

[no class]

Those injectors don't appear to be "stepped" .... looks like the O rings can slide up the injector body . Perhaps you can make ally sleeves to fit over the injector bodies and have an O.D size the same as the O.D of those O rings......notch the portion of the sleeves so that they clear the connectors......the fuel rail will hold eveything in place .

Edited July 15, 2017 by no class

[luke2152]

Those subaru denso injectors are designed to use 9mm ID and 16mm OD grommet.  But the gsxr injectors use 13mm ID and 21mm OD grommet.  So I was using the tapered but not stepped bit of the injector to hold down the big gsxr grommet which was never going to work under boost (easy to say in retrospect).  Fortunately the gsxr throttle bodies have a 14mm bore below the 21mm one so I'm going to try and find some grommets in 9mm ID and 14mm OD.  Otherwise I can drill the 14mm to 16 and just use subaru grommets.

[no class]

the 07' / 08' gsxr 600 tb's use 14mm grommets.....I just don't have the I.D dimension on hand .