Running on two...again!

[Sheep]

Really.....two of my 'test' plugs are the old ones which came with the bike.They still fire well.The second lot were Eblag,the third from a local shop but knowing his stock rotation they could be years old.

My workmate once bought a set of 8 for his V8..he said not one of them worked properly!!!!!..NGK's too.

[dago]

the resistance reading on the dyna coils should be about 14k so one sounds well out see link for test readings https://www.mpsracing.com/instructions/Dynatek/DynaS_Testing.pdf

[Sheep]

Cheers mate...i will have a gander at that.

Luckily Katanamangler the Great has offered to lend me a spare set of coils to eliminate/highlight any issue i may have with them.

However,tonight i have made a discovery....I have,over the last  few days,cleaned contacts,soldered wires,test continuity,copperslipped mounting bolts etc etc and while daydreaming at work i thought i would take the carbs off to give them a once over.My thought process led me to this because i know that too much fuel could wash a spark away and no matter how many times you clean the plug it would never fire.My plugs have been getting wet on 1&4 but before i whipped the carbs off i checked #1 plug for a spark and i got a good blue regular spark.Seems i am getting somewhere...But i still won't rule the coils at just yet...i will see what happens with the test coils.

Looking at the carbs,they were synched well,they had no contamination and everything was tight.I did have 132 mains in so i the put recommended 130's in there.The floats were spot on 17mm too.

What i did find,just before putting the bowls back on,was that the pilot jets are all 20's and not the proper 17.5's !!!!...No wonder the thing has been running rich..and i do not have enough thread to wind in the mixture screw to make up for this...So,while waiting for the coils i am going to order some correct jets..

This is turning out to be a right bollock ache.

[dago]

a breaking down coil can give a fat spark when viewed out of the cylinder but may only produce a weak spark under compression, what carbs you using sounds like jetting for rs36's 

[Sheep]

Yes,RS 36's....it came with 40's but i swapped them for the correct ones (surprisingly the last owner used it like this).I assumed they had the correct jets in.I knew the mains were wrong,i should have checked the pilots before i fitted them.

Until i try the other coils i am not going to blame anything else lol.

[dago]

i've got 38s on mine had to go up on pilots to get mixture screw in the recommend range, the jetting guide they give you is a starting point i think they included different sized pilots as well as mains when new,  try the other coils and see what happens good luck

 

 

 

[KATANAMANGLER]

1 hour ago, Sheep said:

Cheers mate...i will have a gander at that.

Luckily Katanamangler the Great has offered to lend me a spare set of coils to eliminate/highlight any issue i may have with them.

However,tonight i have made a discovery....I have,over the last  few days,cleaned contacts,soldered wires,test continuity,copperslipped mounting bolts etc etc and while daydreaming at work i thought i would take the carbs off to give them a once over.My thought process led me to this because i know that too much fuel could wash a spark away and no matter how many times you clean the plug it would never fire.My plugs have been getting wet on 1&4 but before i whipped the carbs off i checked #1 plug for a spark and i got a good blue regular spark.Seems i am getting somewhere...But i still won't rule the coils at just yet...i will see what happens with the test coils.

Looking at the carbs,they were synched well,they had no contamination and everything was tight.I did have 132 mains in so i the put recommended 130's in there.The floats were spot on 17mm too.

What i did find,just before putting the bowls back on,was that the pilot jets are all 20's and not the proper 17.5's !!!!...No wonder the thing has been running rich..and i do not have enough thread to wind in the mixture screw to make up for this...So,while waiting for the coils i am going to order some correct jets..

This is turning out to be a right bollock ache.

I'm running 36s and I'm running 130 mains and 17.5 pilot. 

[KATANAMANGLER]

BTW you'll receive the coils Thursday.

[johnr]

when i built my first kat i fitted dyna coils and had bother with missfires, it was really hit and miss and i couldnt figure out what was wrong. i once ran all the way back from the lakes on 2 cylinders, ok it was still a kat so i was stuck at about 70-80 mph, anyhow, after much headscratching it turned out that the ht leds where they went into the coils were being crushed against the bottom of the tank when it was full of fuel, as soon as id burned a bit off it was ok as the reduced fuel load let the rubber tank mounts lift the tank off the coil poles, full of fuel and it would missfire within 10 miles. the dynas being fatter than stock coils took up a bit more room and touched the base of the tank. relocating them solved it completely, though ive still got the tank with the tiny pinhead sized scorch marks where the sparks eroded the paintwork! worth having a look at whether anything is fouling the ht side when the bodywork is back on.

[Sheep]

Hi Johnr...Thanks for the reply.i have mounted the coils under the frame rail on small bobbins welded to the rail.The original mounting when i bought the bike was a shoddy affair under the tank.

Although the tank is snug to the coils the ht leads miss the head.I have looked for tracking from the coils.The only time it has is when i have removed the leads from the coil and then it jumps to the mounting bolt.

 

[Sheep]

If I had hair I would be pulling it out by now..........

Ok,update.....sorry.....tonight I fitted my new pilot jets to my carbs before refitting them.I have received some spare coils for diagnosis from Katamangler,..THANK YOU SIR,..but i wanted to put the carbs back to standard settings now before checking my ignition problems just to rule those out and to save taking the carbs off later.

Anyway,....i quickly swapped the Dyna coils over again and found the suspect coil  from 1&4 worked fine on 2&3 so i know the problem is on the 1&4 side.I fitted the spare coils but i still had the same issue...2&3 fired fine,1&4 did not....they all sparked out of the head whether it be Dyna or Suzuki.The middle downpipes were fookin hot,the outer two were mildly warm....FFS,

I assumed it must be the power feed to that coil feeding 1&4.I traced the wires and found no breaks.The multi-meter showed very little resistance.The pick ups have been changed earlier this year and even my spare set worked fine.The only thing i have not changed is the amplifier/ignitor unit.I tried doing the test as shown in the Haynes manual were it states putting the meter probes on particular wires in the ignitor unit (pick ups unplugged) with the spark plugs for 3 and 4 in their leads and rested on a suitable earth on the motor,ignition on.Touching one terminal will make one plug spark and when you remove the probe the other plug should spark too..i could not get this to work.The only way they would spark is when i pushed the connector block for the pick ups back onto the ignitor unit.It wasn't always sparking though.It didn't seem to matter if i wiggled the block or not.

Oh and one more thing...the coil for 2/3 is the only coil that 'energises' when the ignition is turned on....you can tell this by loosening the mounting bolts to that coils and watching it 'jump' as you flick the ignition switch on and off...The other coil has never done this.....

Do you think my ignitor unit is playing up???...Its the only thing i haven't changed!!!...

By the way,my rotor on the crank would not cause any issues would it?

[matt]

Hi, It could well be the ignitor unit, I had a similar problem a few weeks back with the engine missing.

Like you I was getting sparks on all plugs, but it did'nt always seem to be sparking at the right time or every time on a couple of cylinders.

I have been rebuilding my bike over the last year or so, so this was the first time it had been run for a few years, I had been using a Dyna S, but thought I would go back to the standard ignition to do away with the mechanical advance. I have now refitted the Dyna S and it all works perfectly.

I think I may have cooked my ignitor unit as when I first started the engine, I was getting about 17 volts across the battery due to a duff regulator.

Have you checked the voltage you are getting from the regulator on yours?

[Sheep]

Hi mate,yes i have checked the battery on a couple of occasions and each time they showed around 14.5v when running,12.7 at rest.....I have ordered  another ignitor unit from Grumpy so i am hoping it solves the issue.....

I wouldn't mind dumping the whole lot and fitting something better lol....

[Dezza]

Have you changed the connector block for the four wires from the pick-ups to the ignitor ? The reason I ask is a couple of my connectors were loose. This could only be determined when all four wires were removed from the block and connected individually to their appropriate spade on the ignitor. Two were tight and two were loose. When all the wires were in the original block, all felt tight, even though two were loose. The same can obviously be the case for the other block that goes from the ignitor unit to the coils. Changing the wires, connectors and blocks ensures all is good. Also, the spade connectors on the ignitor unit corrode. If you 'borrow' a nail file from the pile of crap in the bathroom accumalted by the missus this is ideal for cleaning these terminals. She will think she has lost the file and willl get a new one so you then have a 'terminal cleaning tool' for keeps.

[Sheep]

...good idea haha...

I have removed the terminals before and soldered them on to the wires but i didn't check how well they fitted to the ignitor..its worth a go

[Sheep]

It wasn't the ignitor...bollocks....im all out of ideas now.

Mind you,i did find the battery was reading a very high voltage when running....16+volts...and when at rest it still read over 13...i borrowed my other bikes battery and the readings where normal.I also noticed one connector on a generator wire looked really suspect.I sorted all these out but still no luck...i even took back all the loom tape to find any faults,and i still cant understand why one coil energises when flicking the kill switch and the other doesn't.The coil that energises is the one that powers the good cylinders....

I think its time for a garage......

[strima]

Have you tried running a temp wire from the coil to the igniter?

[Sheep]

I have considered that Strima,although i haven't as yet.i will try anything at the moment.Are you thinking it could be a dodgy wire??

[strima]

The wire may buzz out well when dead but might start breaking down under load, always worth a punt.

[cbr2gsxr]

Sheep, if you are running RS36 carbs and they are out of sync, they will never run right. Also, I have found that if RS carbs run rich, you will not get a cylinder to fire. How did you sync them? Bench sync? What are your A/F screws set too? Float height is very critical with these carbs. Mine are not at 17mm more like 19 to get it from running rich even with stock jetting. Did this start to happen after you swapped out the 40's for the 36's? Take a look at your slides, make sure they are all even at the bottom of the slides.

Edited June 9, 2016 by cbr2gsxr

[Sheep]

Hi mate..i have bench synched them 2-3 times already.I used #3 as the base and adjusted the rest to suit.Its running 130 mains,17.5 pilots,needle on middle clip,floats at 17mm as you say...last night i started with the mix screws wound out at 3/4 turns but an exhaust backfire made me think it was a little weak so winding them out to 1 1/2 seemed to cure the backfire but still did not cure the misfiring.It just seems odd that it is only a problem on 1 and 4....maybe its all a red herring but its getting so annoying and i hate throwing money at parts when they are not needed.

As for the 40's,those would easily flood if i  fluffed up the starting.To be honest i have tried so many things to get this bike running i am staring to question myself what i've done so far.When i first got the bike i tried to get it running the next day after giving the 40's a clean.I got it running with a backfire from the exhaust when revved up.I think this issue has been with bike from the off.What started as a fixer upper is turning into a complete replacement.I will have a completely different bike from that which i bought soon.

The plugs to 1 and 4 will get wet if it doesn't fire so fuel is there and spark is evident from the plugs.The damn thing should run.

I will try the floats one more time.

btw,i have had it running on the road at least once where i thought it was all ok.However i am not so sure it has been perfect.I believe i have had some sort of fuel/ignition problem from day one.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Sheep

[Sheep]

So,i took cbr2gsxr's advice and set the floats higher and straight away the motor sounded better....at first it sounded good.I took it around the block and it was running on 3...i took the plug from cyl3 and put a dry one in.It now runs on all four...well shit the bed....(i am not getting too excited just yet as the way this bike has been going something else will pop up...)

I fired her up one more time after resting it for an hour and it still sounds so much better...i need to fine tune it now i reckon...but its getting there..what an ordeal....

I now need to replace the rectifier as its goosed....and the battery as that's goosed too....

Talk about chasing my tail.....

[cbr2gsxr]

Sheep, DO NOT run your A/F screws to 1.5 turns out, you will flood the plugs at idle. 1/2 turn and leave it until you get float height set. Its popping because the plugs are fouled and cylinder is not firing. Put in all new plugs, turn to 1/2 and fire it up!

[strima]

Good news mate, always annoying tracking down and electrical fault to find it's a fuelling issue.Rectifiers easy enough to sort out at least!!!