Nick Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Rebuilding the carbs on my other GSXR1100M, and decided to use new float valves as the spring plungers were seized on the originals. Bought some TourMax ones which generally have been ok in the past, however... In the pic there's quite a difference. Assuming they seal (will bench test first), would the difference not effect the float heights? Suzuki want 75 quid per carb for a float valve and seat... Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaos Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 you need to adjust the float height (by bending the tab) after installing new needles. So far I've used Tourmax stuff many times and have never been disappointed. 1 Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 75 quid per carb, just for needles and seats! At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask 2 Quote Link to comment
TonyGee Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, Dezza said: 75 quid per carb, just for needles and seats! At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask they would make more money and sell more on their genuine parts if they weren't so fecking greedy Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 5 hours ago, Captain Chaos said: you need to adjust the float height (by bending the tab) after installing new needles. So far I've used Tourmax stuff many times and have never been disappointed. Reassuring to know. Just wondered if the spring rates etc being different on the plunger will affect running. Yeah, the prices for OEM Suzuki stuff is verging on outrageous and they've really loaded them up over recent years. Quote Link to comment
Carbtec Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 You have the wrong Tourmax float needles. You have K1, you need M4. 1 Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 15 hours ago, Carbtec said: You have the wrong Tourmax float needles. You have K1, you need M4. This would explain it, and would also explain why my my other 1100M runs rich. Thank you, you are a legend... Just goes to show you can't trust Eblag descriptions! Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 Spot the difference... The K1 needles are very different and, I hope, the reason why it was running rich once hot as the fuel level would have been off. 1 Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 So I put the new float valves in and bench tested it... aaand carb 4 pissed out fuel from here. Ffs. Float valve seats are clean - albeit the originals - and I can't see why it's leaking... Any ideas gratefully received... I can't justify the cost of OEM stuff at 300 quid all in! Quote Link to comment
TonyGee Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 give the float bowl a tap with a rubber hammer, sometimes the valves stick, if no luck it could be the seat or the valve leaking. 2 Quote Link to comment
Upshotknothole Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 3 minutes ago, TonyGee said: give the float bowl a tap with a rubber hammer, sometimes the valves stick, if no luck it could be the seat or the valve leaking. What he said! If tapping it doesn't work, open it back up and make sure the float is moving freely and everything is seated properly. I'm never surprised anymore to have one or two floats stick after working on the carbs and reinstalling them. Quote Link to comment
Jaydee Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nick said: So I put the new float valves in and bench tested it... aaand carb 4 pissed out fuel from here. Ffs. Float valve seats are clean - albeit the originals - and I can't see why it's leaking... Any ideas gratefully received... I can't justify the cost of OEM stuff at 300 quid all in! Also check the brass float needle seat is correctly installed. I find twisting them in rather than just pushing them in is better. The o-ring can roll back a little if seat is pushed in which in turn has the seat off plumb with the needle. One side off the float needle is under friction making float sticky. Pretty normal what's happening in photo. Fuel overfills in bowl till it reaches lowest opening which is the slow air jet on most CV carbs. I bench test carbs over a clean basin. If any leaks found, turn carbs over and pour out fuel out of breather and fuel lines. Strain and save the petrol to use again. Carbs empty, work on whatever carb/s has a problem. Repeat if necessary. I find it a quick way to work on leaks. Edited June 6 by Jaydee 2 Quote Link to comment
Carbtec Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) As has been said, sometimes the needles need a little help to find the seat. Tapping, shaking or sometimes just draining & refilling can help them find the seat. Also never underestimate just how clean the seat needs to be, even 1 strand of cotton off a cotton bud will make them fail. I use a cheap USB microscope to get down into the seats for a looksy. This is from a video I took of the seats from one of those £14.95 Eblag kits & if you have any engineering appreciation whatsoever you will wonder what kind of tooling they used, perhaps some kind of bamboo dowel ! Edited June 7 by Carbtec 1 Quote Link to comment
Carbtec Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I would also add, & I hope I'm not teaching anyone how to suck eggs here, but you really do need to hold down the plastic float cage with your third hand while measuring the float heights. Probably one of the biggest causes of failure when folk with an otherwise good mechanical aptitude attempt to rebuild these carbs for the first time. If you look closer at the float cage you will see that it's held firmly down by the float bowl when it's all screwed back together, you need to mimick this & I know some rebuilders have a cutaway float bowl for this very purpose. 4 Quote Link to comment
TonyGee Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 12 minutes ago, Carbtec said: I would also add, & I hope I'm not teaching anyone how to suck eggs here, but you really do need to hold down the plastic float cage with your third hand while measuring the float heights. Probably one of the biggest causes of failure when folk with an otherwise good mechanical aptitude attempt to rebuild these carbs for the first time. If you look closer at the float cage you will see that it's held firmly down by the float bowl when it's all screwed back together, you need to mimick this & I know some rebuilders have a cutaway float bowl for this very purpose. you can't beat sucking a good egg Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 20 hours ago, TonyGee said: give the float bowl a tap with a rubber hammer, sometimes the valves stick, if no luck it could be the seat or the valve leaking. If that doesn't work, try a bigger hammer . 3 Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 I guess you can't put a price on not having your crankcase filling up with fuel, and I'm sick and tired and pulling these carbs on and off and buggering about with aftermarket kits that aren't quite right. The plan is to source some OEM Mikuni float valves and seats - not from Suzuki - and try again. I'm surprised someone isn't making a decent repro version of these bits rather than the naff copies on sale?! And if that doesn't work... flatslides?!! Quote Link to comment
TonyGee Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 12 minutes ago, Nick said: I guess you can't put a price on not having your crankcase filling up with fuel, and I'm sick and tired and pulling these carbs on and off and buggering about with aftermarket kits that aren't quite right. The plan is to source some OEM Mikuni float valves and seats - not from Suzuki - and try again. I'm surprised someone isn't making a decent repro version of these bits rather than the naff copies on sale?! And if that doesn't work... flatslides?!! did you try the tourmax stuff ? i used them all the time and never had an issue. they are made in Japan. Quote Link to comment
Nick Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, TonyGee said: did you try the tourmax stuff ? i used them all the time and never had an issue. they are made in Japan. I've used em in other bikes with success, but wonder if they've gone to Chinesium like everything else recently? Yes mate, carb 4 seems to leak no matter what I do with the new M4 needles (the correct ones). I'm not sure if it's poor quality control on the valve or the seat... (original seats from Mikuni from 1991!) Strangely, the K1 needles that were bought in error did not leak, but equally it ran way too rich with them. I guess I could swap the troublesome valve to another carb and see if it follows, but to be honest, these carbs have turned into such a time thief that I think Mikuni is probably the way to go... Edited June 8 by Nick Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaos Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, Nick said: And if that doesn't work... flatslides?!! Flatslides also have float needles. EFI is the answer. Quote Link to comment
TonyGee Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 3 hours ago, Nick said: I've used em in other bikes with success, but wonder if they've gone to Chinesium like everything else recently? Yes mate, carb 4 seems to leak no matter what I do with the new M4 needles (the correct ones). I'm not sure if it's poor quality control on the valve or the seat... (original seats from Mikuni from 1991!) Strangely, the K1 needles that were bought in error did not leak, but equally it ran way too rich with them. I guess I could swap the troublesome valve to another carb and see if it follows, but to be honest, these carbs have turned into such a time thief that I think Mikuni is probably the way to go... have you replaced the valve seat ? Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) Try switching the valves in the seats. E.g. move 1 to 4, 2 to 4 or 3 to 4. You may get a better valve-seat match just by chance. You never know, a miracle may result. Edited June 8 by Dezza 1 Quote Link to comment
Carbtec Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 5 hours ago, Nick said: I've used em in other bikes with success, but wonder if they've gone to Chinesium like everything else recently? Tourmax is a brand name used by a Japanese Co' called MC International. They are HUGE in the Japanese auto industry & make quite a lot of the OEM parts that make up all those Japanese cars & bikes. They certainly make stuff for Mikuni & Keihin but I have never been able to get anything definitive about exactly what. I do have proof that Mikuni's back catalogue of carburettor parts are now made / sourced in China by a mostly Mikuni owned subsidiary. Mikuni Japan & it's factories dotted around the tiger economy are now almost fully devoted to modern tech like FI, so your genuine Mikuni brass jets that you buy today & anything else included in a CV carb is now made in China. I am led to believe that MC International are contractually allowed to make & market 'some' aftermarket parts that are exactly the same as the OEM originals that they also made, float bowl gaskets/seals is one of them that I am sure of, any shape of O ring type rubber float bowl gasket on a Mikuni or Keihin carb from the 80's onwards is almost certainly made by MC International & can now be bought under the Tourmax brand at a vastly cheaper price than the OEM part. Can I use this opportunity to mention that MC International products are commonly 'faked' & the brands they market their products under, brands like Tourmax, unless they are sourced from "respected" suppliers, can often be made in that anonymous factory in China & sold out to the unsuspecting world as genuine 'Tourmax' just as easily as they are sold out as genuine Mikuni or Keihin, Suzuki, Gurls blouse, Kawasaki, Yamaha etc etc etc . . . ! 2 Quote Link to comment
Upshotknothole Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Yeah, I think we get the same parts sold as K&L here in the states. Tourmax doesn't really exist here as a brand. Quote Link to comment
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