Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?

[Omegasteve]

To save bombing the build thread, I'll put the question here if that's okay?

So as it seems the cams and rockers are trash in my GSXF head it seems I need to replace.

Now my question is whether the Bandit 600 head is a straight swap (no unfortunately they aren't identical), because if so I can get one. If they are a straight swap then as they are not shimmed it looks far easier to keep up with valve clearance maintenance whereas the GSX600F head needs shims replaced to do so.

Anyone able to clear up if it's as easy as just swapping the head and cams from one to the other. Or does more change between the two? 

Pics of my cams and head to show.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Omegasteve

[Swiss Toni]

@wraithand @fatblokeonbandit?

[Omegasteve]

I think the real call here is just a complete engine swap, I don't know the condition of the rest of the engine and if the head is that bad then there's a chance the bottom end ain't great either.

Now I don't want or need more power, as lovely as a 750 or even a 1200 sounds. A 600 is plenty for me for now.

Is a mk1 bandit 600 a straight swap. Retaining all the gsxf ancillaries and just swapping the motor itself? 

If so I'll find a good low miler and spend the time cleaning it up and swap it in. There's loads of them about and they are cheap!

[DAZ]

I honestly cannot see why it wouldn't be a easy swap,use the gsx intake boots oil cooler pipes maybe have to swap sump and rocker cover breather over if any clearance issue using bandit ones,and tbh there will be loads of help on here to talk you through it 

[Omegasteve]

1 hour ago, DAZ said:

I honestly cannot see why it wouldn't be a easy swap,use the gsx intake boots oil cooler pipes maybe have to swap sump and rocker cover breather over if any clearance issue using bandit ones,and tbh there will be loads of help on here to talk you through it 

I think physically they look almost identical so I'm hoping so!

[Swiss Toni]

Have a go then. What’s the worst that can happen?

Edited December 22, 2022 by Swiss Toni

[TonyGee]

the B6 doesn't have the small sprocket between the cam sprockets so their will be a chain length issue, plus I think they use different chains. 

best bet go for a GSX750F engine, you don't have to use the extra power if you don't want to 

[DAZ]

As I say there may be some differences in the little details between the two complete engines, but when you get them side by side you will see what will need swapping ,be brave have a go ,you will gain experience and knowledge and confidence and when it's done satisfaction

Edited December 22, 2022 by DAZ
Addition

[Omegasteve]

35 minutes ago, TonyGee said:

the B6 doesn't have the small sprocket between the cam sprockets so their will be a chain length issue, plus I think they use different chains. 

best bet go for a GSX750F engine, you don't have to use the extra power if you don't want to 

The issue with that is finding one. They aren't cheap and I don't want to spend any more than necessary to get it up and running. 

[wraith]

As a head swap as above the can chains are different etc so not straight forward. 

As a engine change, yes they will go, you will need to change the sumps and oil return pipes and filter bending on what exhaust you have 4-2 or 4-1 

Carbs are also different

But as a engine change go ahead you will have all the bits you may need to swap with your old engine anyway and finding a cheep good b6 engine will be much easier than to find a gsx600f engine

You can also look at the MK2 b6 and the latter gsxf engine 

[Omegasteve]

5 hours ago, wraith said:

As a head swap as above the can chains are different etc so not straight forward. 

As a engine change, yes they will go, you will need to change the sumps and oil return pipes and filter bending on what exhaust you have 4-2 or 4-1 

Carbs are also different

But as a engine change go ahead you will have all the bits you may need to swap with your old engine anyway and finding a cheep good b6 engine will be much easier than to find a gsx600f engine

You can also look at the MK2 b6 and the latter gsxf engine 

Fantastic! Thank you very much, I think that's the route I'll take.

So the gsxf carbs won't run on the bandit engine? If not, not a massive issue.

Are the mk2 b6 engines similar then? 

[DAZ]

4 hours ago, Omegasteve said:

Fantastic! Thank you very much, I think that's the route I'll take.

So the gsxf carbs won't run on the bandit engine? If not, not a massive issue.

Are the mk2 b6 engines similar then? 

The carbs should be ok ,as I said earlier you may need to swap the intake boots(rubbers) as the carbs maybe at a different angle or spacing but the boots will transfer and line them up ,you will need new o rings at the head side but you can get them off the bay 

[Omegasteve]

6 minutes ago, DAZ said:

The carbs should be ok ,as I said earlier you may need to swap the intake boots(rubbers) as the carbs maybe at a different angle or spacing but the boots will transfer and line them up ,you will need new o rings at the head side but you can get them off the bay 

Fantastic, I have new o rings en route anyway. Sounds like a plan! I've found a mk1 engine very local for £200. Just going to try and find out if a mk2 would be better.

[DAZ]

I don't think there is much difference apart from age and I seem to recall that the very last ones 2005/6ish went big bore at 650!  main thing is if you are buying from a breaker you want a 30 day warranty on it if you can so you can fit it and get it running ,be cheeky ask to look at cams if possible,the odd scruffy cover is ok as you will have yours to put on and generally the donor will becoming from an accident damaged bike which is ok usually as you know it was running at the time hope this helps

[Omegasteve]

9 minutes ago, DAZ said:

I don't think there is much difference apart from age and I seem to recall that the very last ones 2005/6ish went big bore at 650!  main thing is if you are buying from a breaker you want a 30 day warranty on it if you can so you can fit it and get it running ,be cheeky ask to look at cams if possible,the odd scruffy cover is ok as you will have yours to put on and generally the donor will becoming from an accident damaged bike which is ok usually as you know it was running at the time hope this helps

Helps massively mate, its really appreciated! 

[DAZ]

I'm sure when you lifted the lid on those cams your heart sank,but the oss nation want you to win and get your bike on the road the winter solstice is passed summer is on its way!!

[Omegasteve]

3 minutes ago, DAZ said:

I'm sure when you lifted the lid on those cams your heart sank,but the oss nation want you to win and get your bike on the road the winter solstice is passed summer is on its way!!

Do you know what, part of me was a little gutted. Part of me was a little relieved to maybe be one step closer to identifying the issues I've had getting this thing running. I've rebuilt bikes before but they've always just kind of worked after a little tinkering,  this has been a headache so I'm excited and keen to be making progress again. The help from here is absolutely second to none as well and can't wait to actually be enjoying the thing! I'm a little fond of it it seems haha

[wraith]

Yes MK1 and mk2 will both fit. The mk2 had different carbs to the MK1 and it had the electrical Speedo coming off the front sprocket but never of them are a problem. 

Don't know it the later bandit with the 650 was a bigger bore or not but I've heard they don't give as much power out (bhp)???

Some of the gsx600f had a tin top carb fitted (similar to the gsxr ones but smaller bore) and some had the more commen plastic tops, think the tin tops where 33mm and the plastic 32mm? 

Again look at the later post 2000 gsxf 600 engines as they probably won't of been as thrashed as a bandit 

[Omegasteve]

9 minutes ago, wraith said:

Yes MK1 and mk2 will both fit. The mk2 had different carbs to the MK1 and it had the electrical Speedo coming off the front sprocket but never of them are a problem. 

Don't know it the later bandit with the 650 was a bigger bore or not but I've heard they don't give as much power out (bhp)???

Some of the gsx600f had a tin top carb fitted (similar to the gsxr ones but smaller bore) and some had the more commen plastic tops, think the tin tops where 33mm and the plastic 32mm? 

Again look at the later post 2000 gsxf 600 engines as they probably won't of been as thrashed as a bandit 

Thank you so much! I've got the plastic top gsxf carbs currently. I'll see if I can find a good mk2 then. The post 2000 gsxf would be a mk2 too wouldn't it? 

[davecara]

I'm trying to wangle a dot motor out of the breakers in Wallasey, I dont hes got half a dozen gsxr750 engines in there. Want me try and get one out of there cheap for you?

[Omegasteve]

4 minutes ago, davecara said:

I'm trying to wangle a dot motor out of the breakers in Wallasey, I dont hes got half a dozen gsxr750 engines in there. Want me try and get one out of there cheap for you?

What work would need to be done to get a 750 in? Budget really is a real issue with this project and I don't want to spend more than I ideally need to. 

[Omegasteve]

Is that peninsula? I did message but it's been read and not replied to. 

[davecara]

1 hour ago, Omegasteve said:

Is that peninsula? I did message but it's been read and not replied to. 

Yeah he's not the most responsive unless its still hes already stripped and tagged up. I tend to wander in there and take bikes apart myself 

 

Work wise, absolutley none iirc. Your 600 out, drop a 750 in. You might need a clutch cable

Edited December 23, 2022 by davecara

[Omegasteve]

2 minutes ago, davecara said:

Yeah he's not the most responsive unless its still hes already stripped and tagged up. I tend to wander in there and take bikes apart myself 

 

Work wise, absolutley none iirc. Your 600 out, drop a 750 in. You might need a clutch cable

Carbs? Exhaust?

[davecara]

all straight on as far as I remember. You might have to swap sumps around @fatblokeonbanditcan you confirm?

Edited December 23, 2022 by davecara