Stripped thread. Named or generic Helicoil type repair kit

[Andyb]

Hi,. Gone and stripped one of the breather cover threads.  

Can I get away with an unbranded helicoil kit, or should I go with a Bergen, or Helicoil kit

 

thanks

[Jaydee]

Don't know what engine it is but if there's enough metal around the thread, you can't beat a Time-sert. They come in all manner of thread sizes and lengths.  

Edited December 30, 2015 by Jaydee

[Andyb]

Doh,,. It's a GS550. Cheers anyway @Jaydee. Best place to get them?

[Jaydee]

They're readily available on that auction site. But probably better having a look at the prices on Wurths site first. 

http://www.wurth.co.uk/hand-tools/thread-repair-and-reinforcement/thread-repair-system-time-sert

[Andyb]

Thanks @Jaydee. 

[markfoggy]

You don't need a Timesert in there, complete overkill on something that's only holding a gasket down. If it was structural I'm not hesitate to say yes, but, cheapo set will be fine IMO. Loads of racing experience nowadays with older engines and this sort of damage hasn't proved too difficult. It's the large lumps that come away when you're trying to get the original bastards out that are proving more of an issue. 

Also, price might prove a touch spicy for a little job, but it would be a life long set, so - up to you.

[Captain Chaos]

the breather cover is not structural but the next thread you strip, might be. So invest in good quality stuff right away.

[coombehouse]

Personally I would go with wire thread inserts (Helicoil type) as suggested. They are used as OE on aerospace parts so I guess they would be ok on a GS550. They also use a smaller hole than timeserts which gives you an additional repair if you mess the thread up in the future!! They are also cheap & easy to use.

Nick

[markfoggy]

Quick note on looking at reasonably priced sets on the web get a set with a depth collar on them.

It's often worth doing all the threads for a component in one go. The temptation is of course just to get the helicoil just down deep enough to allow the gasket to seal. Far better to set them all down 5/10 mm, at the same height and have fasteners with some plain shank. If there's a dowel involved you'll have to do this anyway.

With a timesert you're committed to surface mounting the buggers, not really suitable if you've got to sort out a pair of crank case halves.

 

[madman]

If  for Spark plug Repairs just wished to ad don't use Helicoils period, Timeserts are best for heads . The wire end of the helicoil can glow red causing preignition and other issues inside the cylinder head.  Mike

[TonyC]

I've used Recoil sets with no problems on GS750 and GSX1100 valve covers.  I think the wire insert is slightly thinner than Helicoil, so you get away with drilling a smaller hole - handy if there's not too much metal around!

In view of comments below, I've had another look at my packs of inserts and have to conclude that my pack of 'Genuine Helicoil' 6x1 inserts must contain the wrong inserts - no wonder I had so much trouble with them!

Tony

Edited January 1, 2016 by TonyC
Mis-information - sorry!

[markfoggy]

Interesting, I had thought that wire thread inserts were covered by ISO Standards. Over at the team we use Recoil kits, but tend to purchase Inserts described as HeliCoil, usually from RS Components. I'll have to do some research.

I'm in the market for kits at the moment. I've got 20 ali weld in bosses waiting for collection from the machinist over in Somerset. These have been Threaded for M6 wire inserts, plan is to scatter them all over CupCake, replacing all of the NutSerts that Suzuki are so fond of using in Alloy frames and  Swing Arms and giving me sound mountings where I need to frill for custom mounts. Would be a nightmare if the plot began to unravel now.

[markfoggy]

Honorable mention as well to KeenSerts as well, have used these on occasion as well.

http://www.specialty-fasteners.co.uk/products/threaded-fasteners-thread-locking/keensert-inserts

You need a bit of space around the hole to get these to work, but if you're expecting the thread to need a high torque in a thick section, these are the nuts. Thread, fit, and then drive a fastener down the insrt and the tangs drive into the parent metal for a very secure fastening.

I've seen a lot of Caliper adapter plates used over the years, problem usually come when you've got a mix of thread types (M10x 1.0 and M10x 1.25) in the same area. You'd be amazed how often trained monkey race mechanic types will bugger the threads here, just by grabbing the wrong fastener and driving it into place.

[Andyb]

Thanks @markfoggy. I thought this would be a simple yes or no,. I hadn't realised there was so many variations of thread inserts 

[madman]

I only use timeserts in Cylinder Head Spark Plugs. Steve Rive recommended them to me years ago. I like them quite nice indeed. I put them in all my heads I build. I don't even bother to leave nice threaded heads alone just Timesert them  immediately, then never any spark plug thread issues. Fix em while they is apart I say!!

[markfoggy]

I think that's good advice, GSX heads seem to have a habit of cracking over from the seats to the spark plug hole, though strangely doesn't seem to present much of an issue in performance if you don't go mad on the compression. 

Having a steel insert in there might well help this not starting.

[coombehouse]

10 hours ago, TonyC said:

I've used Recoil sets with no problems on GS750 and GSX1100 valve covers.  I think the wire insert is slightly thinner than Helicoil, so you get away with drilling a smaller hole - handy if there's not too much metal around!

 

Tony

I could be wrong but I thought that all the wire thread inserts were the same - copies of Helicoil who used to own the patent but now expired I believe. There is a tolerance on the hole size in the specs which could account for the variation in hole sizes but I think the inserts are all made to the same spec. We get aerospace ones with a locking element from lots of different manufacturers depending on availability. Its always possible though that someone has changed the design though.

Nick

Just checked & the drill size for 6mm is the same for Recoil & Helicoil - 6.3mm dia.

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by coombehouse
More info

[Guest YoshiJohnny]

I only use timeserts in everything..... we invested in a full kit a while back ...the serts themselves are cheap enough it's the kit costs... always worth investing if you are doing a lot of work yourself. If not as your local dealer to do it...it's probably cheaper... we'd charge about £20

YJ

[Sheep]

If i may chirp in i have used Helicoils to varying degrees of sucess.I found taking your time and getting them inserted fully makes for best results.My current project had a few helicoils in the cam caps (ooer) and a ham fisted owner made a bit of a mess of the bolts.I ended tapping the hole oversize and buying some fasteners and bespoke rubber washers and they were good as new.When i was working on them i found 2 coils had started to wind out so it pays to get them fixed in tight.

[Screwriverracing]

So what would you use on a EFE clutch cover, one of my threads on the left hand side 3 bolt up(if I remember correctly) has gone.

There isn't a lot of meat round it, so what's the best option please?

Cheers SRR

[Andyb]

Not that I have the skills, but I would think tig filling the hole and starting again!  Just my pennies worth. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Andyb
Shit typing skills.

[markfoggy]

This is exactly what helicoils are designed for. just ease the bolt hole out to 6mm to take out the existing thread and then run the new drill size down it. It may help to have another set of eyes on the problem to make sure that you're not trying to drill it on the piss, but if you go for cutting to 6mm first, the drill should try and follow the hole, so light touch on the tool and let it do the work. 

Welding it up might be an option, but getting a weld down 15mm of tunnel, getting the sealing face machined afterwards so that it'll be oil tight and then getting the pilot drilling in exactly the right place sounds to me like the worlds worst ball-ache. I can't think how you'd index a mill to do this without a lot of fucking about.

[Sheep]

For a 6mm bolt thread repair you dont need too much meat around it.You are only drilling out a small amount.

Good advice above concerning letting the drill do the work.....Although i would try other options first there is always JB Weld which can be drilled/worked but try the insert first.