Gearbox ID.

[Duckndive]

Given the evidence presented .......

If its got 998cc block then given silver cases ignition pick ups and slide carbs "I recon whats in pic is a 1000cc Kat motor" in a dented  1135 efe frame..."750 frame is different at rear"

Now as the clutch appears to be where it should be "So cases  not modified on that side for the mystery box"

SO move to the LH side

Again looks to me like a 1135EFE Frame ..."750 is different at rear"......

Now look at the sprocket cover looks to me to be where it would be....

so if the clutch side has not been modified the longer out put shaft would mean major surgery to this side and would mean an offset sprocket and cutting the frame for the chain run

so if the box came out of that motor to quote Miss Wilcox  "its a misstery  "  

 

Engine No less motors while not run of the mill were quite common on factory race-bikes where engines had been built or rebuilt with new cases ...

Revs Hot Clutch had number less Yoshi motors

[Swiss Toni]

21 hours ago, Cheeky4648 said:

That’s a 5 speed box in the tscc 750. 

I know. I was thinking more along the lines of the 750 may have room across the cases to accommodate the longer 6 speed shafts. I'm a bit doubtful, as the 1100 cases won't take them. Be handy if there was someone on the forum with a stripped motor for measuring! 

 

[Swiss Toni]

@DuckndiveI think the issue here is, as much as the gearbox id question, is what are the crankcases then? Katana 1000 cases can't be that much different to run of the mill 1100 cases, which won't take the shafts! As for being CBR shafts, I can't see a gearbox from a different manufacturer fitting into a Suzuki case! Unlikely, but I'm not saying impossible!

Edited November 12, 2018 by Swiss Toni

[Duckndive]

1 minute ago, Swiss Toni said:

@DuckndiveI think the issue here is, as much as the gearbox id question, is what are the lower crankcases then? Katana 1000 cases can't be that much different to run of the mill 1100 cases, which won't take the shafts! As for being CBR shafts, I can't see a gearbox from a different manufacturer fitting into a Suzuki case! Unlikely, but I'm not saying impossible!

As I said originally I don’t see that gearbox coming out of that motor as based on the the evidence there just bog stock  1000,1100 16v cases .. IMO 

[stockcar]

Kat 1000 motor shares the lower cases and simply had 998cc (or whatever) barrels / pistons to make it legal for Superbike Raving back in the day.......

[gs7_11]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:55 AM, Duckndive said:

....... to quote Miss Wilcox  "its a misstery  " 

No, she said "It's a myth, Terry."

[Swiss Toni]

On 10 November 2018 at 4:34 PM, Duckndive said:

As I said originally I don’t see that gearbox coming out of that motor as based on the the evidence there just bog stock  1000,1100 16v cases .. IMO 

It did! It was the only big Suzuki I had at the time. I didn't like the idea of 'no number' cases, so I stripped the motor, keeping hold of everything but the cases. Gearbox a 'no go' in the replacement cases. Interesting theory on it coming from a 1000 Kat. The bike was fitted with 1000/1100 Katana clocks, and I think the generator cover was Katana too? Smashed to bits, as PO fell off it! Correct me if I'm wrong? If I could find out which cases would take the six speed, 1000/1100 head & barrels, I'd put a motor together. Be cool having a six speed, Aircooled bruiser!

[Duckndive]

1 hour ago, Swiss Toni said:

It did! It was the only big Suzuki I had at the time. I didn't like the idea of 'no number' cases, so I stripped the motor, keeping hold of everything but the cases. Gearbox a 'no go' in the replacement cases. Interesting theory on it coming from a 1000 Kat. The bike was fitted with 1000/1100 Katana clocks, and I think the generator cover was Katana too? Smashed to bits, as PO fell off it! Correct me if I'm wrong? If I could find out which cases would take the six speed, 1000/1100 head & barrels, I'd put a motor together. Be cool having a six speed, Aircooled bruiser!

Lost me there What do I need to correct ?

So if the clutch side is stock parts in stock place as your pic shows.....explain how the sprocket side works "as it looks stock to me" and you cbr box is a lot longer

so one side must be different from stock.....

 

 

[johnr]

carbs in that pic aree also kat 1000

[Swiss Toni]

@DuckndiveI meant I'm not 100% sure if the gen. cover is Katana specific. You seem to be far more clued up on Aircooled Suzuki than me,  so I'm inclined to take your advice and observations  as pretty solid!  As for the cases being anything other than stock, the mods must have been pretty suttle if they were! All side casings are std too.  I had a bit of a 'lightbulb' moment today, thinking that if the six speed was a 'factory' mod, the position indicators on the sprocket cover might show six gear positions? No such luck! Shows only five. I wish I'd hung on to the cases now! 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Swiss Toni

[stockcar]

as previously mentioned @Swiss Toni to all intents and purposes the Kat 1000 crank case and gearbox are identical to any other GSX1100 set-up so its defo not as simple as that........

[johnr]

kat 1000 engine numbers all begin with 'GS10X' 1100's are GS110X.

[Swiss Toni]

John. Knowing what the Katana case no's start with doesn't help me much, I'm afraid,  Not knowing what the original cases were. No numbers! However, as has been said previously, the motor looks suspiciously like a Kat! If there's anyone on the site with a pair of empty, pukka Katana cases, maybe they could measure the width of both sets of bearing housings (outside to outside), and the diameters of the housings. As has been said previously, Katana cases are no different to GSX1100 cases, but that cluster does not fit GSX1100 cases! Nor GS750, nor 750 Slingshot, nor B6!     I've tried!

So. Until someone can take these measurements, to either confirm or deny, It's going to remain an enigma!

Edited November 14, 2018 by Swiss Toni

[Duckndive]

12 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

John. Knowing what the Katana case no's start with doesn't help me much, I'm afraid,  Not knowing what the original cases were. No numbers! However, as has been said previously, the motor looks suspiciously like a Kat! If there's anyone on the site with a pair of empty, pukka Katana cases, maybe they could measure the width of both sets of bearing housings (outside to outside), and the diameters of the housings. As has been said previously, Katana cases are no different to GSX1100 cases, but that cluster does not fit GSX1100 cases! Nor GS750, nor 750 Slingshot, nor B6!     I've tried!

So. Until someone can take these measurements, to either confirm or deny, It's going to remain an enigma!

Kat GSX 1000cc

Input shaft R/H side 1 x 26 x 62 x 17

Input Shaft L/H Side 1 x 20  x 47 x 14

Output Shaft R/H Side 1 x 20 x 47 x 14

Output Shaft L/H side 1 x  26 x 62 x 17

GSX 1100 1074cc

Input shaft R/H side 1 x 26 x 62 x 17

Input Shaft L/H Side 1 x 20  x 47 x 14

Output Shaft R/H Side 1 x 20 x 47 x 14

Output Shaft L/H side 1 x  26 x 62 x 17

They also share the same input and output shafts  “bit of a trend maybe”  guess what size O/D 1135cc gearbox bearings are...

Bearing Centres are 125 / 130 ish from memory I don’t have a set of open cases to hand but will have at week-end

GS1000 2 V box uses same bearings but shafts and bearing centres are 5mm ish shorter can't physically measure as I sold all my 2V stuff to a race team a few years ago but as you have to machine a 4 V clutch basket down on width to fit in a 2V I'm close….

But I do still have a very naughty 1000cc Katana block that came from a race team that did very well in there class and never got rumbled ..  

the old 250 hustler 2 smoke had a 6 speed box with 52mm bearings and needle rollers "but I,ve slept a few times since the 70's when i worked at Suzuki Dealers"  and  given they only made about 35 beans the gears were not that wide "strong". think oil boiler 750 gear next to a oil boiler 1100 gear  but not a cbr box

Hamamatsu must like the 62mm bearing  O/Dia as they used it on the Oil Boiler box as well ....

 

 

[Swiss Toni]

Hey! That's some great info there, Clive.  Plenty to be getting on with! 

[Askamaskinservice]

So could it been a Hynda case and gearbox with Suzuki barrels?

As the gears is suggested to be of that sort.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Askamaskinservice

[Duckndive]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:08 AM, Swiss Toni said:

So. Until someone can take these measurements, to either confirm or deny, It's going to remain an enigma!

Ok then the Bearings Outside to Outside on a GS1000 "2V" GSX 1000cc Katana, GSX 1100 and GS1150 "EFE. Gearbox...are 140.5mm ..

The Bearing Centres are 125mm....

The only item that's different "aside from Gear Ratios" is that the Input Shaft length on the "2V" motor is 4mm Shorter.....

Out of interest when was this 6 speed motor put together

[no class]

19 hours ago, Duckndive said:

 

Out of interest when was this 6 speed motor put together

…….it never happened maaaaan….it was a mild hallucination ….fuelled by some killa sticky icky .

 

[Swiss Toni]

On 18 November 2018 at 11:58 AM, no class said:

…….it never happened maaaaan….it was a mild hallucination ….fuelled by some killa sticky icky .

 

@DuckndiveHaven't got a scoobie! I've had it (the gearbox) for about 10 yrs. the girlfriends son had it (the bike) a month before he wrecked it. When the motor was put together, is anyone's guess!

Edited November 19, 2018 by Swiss Toni