The Charging Mod Illustrated

[Buzuki]

2 minutes ago, Crass said:

Maybe start a new thread on this one as it could get messy all mixed in with discussion of the original mod and leave people trying to follow one or the other subject a bit confused when referring to it in future?

[Crass]

9 hours ago, jonny1bump said:

Crass your right it's all fed from breaker including main charging wire, hence high rating. Perhaps then for those who removed breaker we advise breaker be replaced with 30 amp in line fuse.

Having had a sleep on this I'd revise my statement that an inline fuse is overkill.  Without a fuse you've basically got an unprotected connection direct from battery +ve through the trigger circuit to earth.  If anything were to go wrong in that circuit to cause a short to earth it could make a bit of a mess so a fuse would be sensible.

Looking at the circuit I think 30A is too high.  The +ve feed through the breaker with stock wiring is the main power feed to the whole bike, except the starting circuit.  With the breaker still in the wiring the charging mod as above does not bypass the breaker absolutely, it still feeds the rest of the electrics just not the trigger circuit.  Also, the breaker protects the charging circuit as the feed from the alternator to the battery (which we don't interfere with in the charging mod) also passes through it.  So the 30A rating is to cater for the entire electrical load of the bike, an inline fuse in the trigger wire alone ought to be a lesser rating than that.

I'll stick a meter in the circuit when I get a mo and see what sort of current draw there is and choose a fuse rating to suit.  Worse comes to the worse I'll choose one by trial and error, taking the bike out with some spares in my pocket, stick a 10A in and see if it lasts, if not go up a rating etc. 

[Crass]

Also worth saying that the fuse rating is the continuous current rating.  The wiring used in the mod illustrated is 30A rated, so a fuse will typically pass twice the continuous rated current before blowing.  If you put a 30A inline fuse in the trigger wire it's going to pass ~60A before blowing - way too high!  My feeling is a 10A fuse in this circuit is going to be right.

Without getting heavily into another subject, anyone who has removed the breaker on their bike now has an unprotected charging circuit.  The fuse box only protects the rest of the electric, the feed from the alternator to the battery does not pass through the fuse box, it passes through the 30A breaker.  A branch does then pass through the fuse box to feed the bike's electrics but without the breaker in place (or some replacement protection) the charging feed to the battery is unprotected in case of short circuit / over-current etc.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Crass

[jonny1bump]

Right then just got workshop drawing out. The wiring diagram that's been posted on here confuses matters.

Go by my hand written picture..

The breaker feeds whole circuit on bike apart from starter motor there is no fuse in this feed.

The main orange wire is main feed straight out of ignition it feeds horn, fuse box, and alternator trigger wire, hense why linked to 30 amp breaker. Also red charging wire goes to this breaker.

So if removing breaker may be good idea to install inline fuse to protect circuits not protected by fuse box I.e. ignition switch, horn, charging circuit. Remember fuse it to protect wiring.

Right back to my mod you are feeding trigger wire directly to battery via the relay if you worried about protecting the wire you can put in inline fuse.

So the wiring diagram posted could do with been removed as that is misleading making circuit look like it's protected with a fuse.

Does that makes sense. Like said don't over think it.

Edited November 18, 2018 by jonny1bump

[jonny1bump]

Spoke to Stu whose is far clever then me on leccy, replacing breaker with 30 amp fuse is fine only to protect against dead short.

"You've got to charge the battery through it once running & think about the load when running. 2x55w headlamp, 10w side & tail, brake & indicators 21w+2x21w plus running current for the ignition (say 5A) gives about 20A & you don't want to be thermally stressing the fuse so 30 is fine.

10 is fine for the trigger feed." 

Edited November 18, 2018 by jonny1bump

[Captain Chaos]

To everyone,

@jonny1bumpand I we are putting together a story about all the wiring mods on oilcooled bikes. Not only the charging mod, but also the sidestand switch + relay elimination and more.

If you have any ideas/suggestions/remarks, post away in this topic.

[Captain Chaos]

And only facts please, no guesswork or experiments or whatever.

[Crass]

56 minutes ago, jonny1bump said:

Spoke to Stu whose is far clever then me on leccy, replacing breaker with 30 amp fuse is fine only to protect against dead short.

"You've got to charge the battery through it once running & think about the load when running. 2x55w headlamp, 10w side & tail, brake & indicators 21w+2x21w plus running current for the ignition (say 5A) gives about 20A & you don't want to be thermally stressing the fuse so 30 is fine.

10 is fine for the trigger feed." 

Excellent, thanks for this.  I agree with you regarding the post which was made showing a wiring diagram - that doesn't match the genuine circuits on the bikes as per the manual, so it only serves to confuse.  Threw me at first until I got the manual out.

I'm going to add an inline fuse to the trigger feed and I'll go with a 10A fuse.  I'll amend the original post when I've done it to show the addition of a fuse, which people can omit if they prefer.  Personally I think it's worth adding, it's virtually no extra work /expense.  If you ever did get a short on that circuit with it unprotected through chafing of insulation over the years you're going to have a straight discharge of the battery to earth, which could get rather warm.  IMHO it ain't worth the risk for a couple of quid on a fuse and makes the job nice and tidy.  We like tidy .

[jonny1bump]

Sounds good. Just 're-read original article that really does explain it well along with captains relay pic.

Only other comment I have Crass most  old school Suzukis the wires are now black so you have to really clean the cable with gentle abrasion and use good quality crimps.

 

[yyt]

I agree this thread might get messy, but I'll write what I think.

I don't think this is the solution but rather ignores the symptoms. The IC regulator should compensate for the changing electrical load rather than keep charging voltage of the battery.

From my last month experience, I had to change the starter carbon bushes, than the alternator  IC regulator I checked the voltage all around and found out there is a significant voltage drop on the main 12v line.

As you will see the main problem was in the harness, where the main 12v line wasn't connected together! the lines were just put next to each-other and wrapped with insulating tape.

Interesting that the orange lines where bundled together good with brass thing.

I can't say all Suzuki's  harnesses are bad, but for me this was the solution.

 

 

Give it  think, than if you like you delete this to clean this thread.

[jonny1bump]

If you read the original article in vault section I measured where all the voltage drops occur.

The reg needs to know what voltage system has.  I've seen voltage drop through ignition switch on few bikes now. You quite right about the wiring they all old and suffering now in many places.

The mod does fix this but does not address route cause. To fix this replace whole leccy system or make new loom as I did choice is yours.

Remember I discovered this 10 years ago or more so imagine state most are in now.

I certainly would not delete your thread you found what works for you and that may work for others no golden rules here every machine can be different, we learn from experiences. 

Also the red wires should be clipped together looks like that may have been a factory miss.

Edited November 27, 2018 by jonny1bump

[jonny1bump]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:58 AM, Crass said:

Excellent, thanks for this.  I agree with you regarding the post which was made showing a wiring diagram - that doesn't match the genuine circuits on the bikes as per the manual, so it only serves to confuse.  Threw me at first until I got the manual out.

I'm going to add an inline fuse to the trigger feed and I'll go with a 10A fuse.  I'll amend the original post when I've done it to show the addition of a fuse, which people can omit if they prefer.  Personally I think it's worth adding, it's virtually no extra work /expense.  If you ever did get a short on that circuit with it unprotected through chafing of insulation over the years you're going to have a straight discharge of the battery to earth, which could get rather warm.  IMHO it ain't worth the risk for a couple of quid on a fuse and makes the job nice and tidy.  We like tidy .

When you have updated can you let us know.

[Crass]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:59 PM, jonny1bump said:

When you have updated can you let us know.

Will do.

[jonny1bump]

Does this picture explain it better.

Edited November 27, 2018 by jonny1bump

[wsn03]

On 11/26/2018 at 8:24 PM, jonny1bump said:

Does this picture explain it better.

I understand that, so its definitely clear. Lucky cause I was starting to get confused (easily done with electrics)

[jonny1bump]

I thought it was getting confusing with random pics been posted so thought this would make it clear. Captain will now post this into the vault section with my original article.

Hopefully that be job done.

[wsn03]

Ive never bought a relay - what type do I need and from where can I buy a decent one? Also are we settled on the 30A fuse?

[wsn03]

On 11/20/2018 at 12:55 PM, yyt said:

I agree this thread might get messy, but I'll write what I think.

I don't think this is the solution but rather ignores the symptoms. The IC regulator should compensate for the changing electrical load rather than keep charging voltage of the battery.

From my last month experience, I had to change the starter carbon bushes, than the alternator  IC regulator I checked the voltage all around and found out there is a significant voltage drop on the main 12v line.

As you will see the main problem was in the harness, where the main 12v line wasn't connected together! the lines were just put next to each-other and wrapped with insulating tape.

Interesting that the orange lines where bundled together good with brass thing.

I can't say all Suzuki's  harnesses are bad, but for me this was the solution.

 

 

Give it  think, than if you like you delete this to clean this thread.

Surely this wasn't from factory standard? Im guessing a bodge? Interested to know more

[Gixer1460]

The brass crimp is factory - seen it lots of times on various manufacturers looms - the bare reds look odd though!

[wsn03]

25 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

The brass crimp is factory - seen it lots of times on various manufacturers looms - the bare reds look odd though!

Wonder if the base red was as standard?? Bit scary if it was

[jonny1bump]

The base red should of had a crimp it's been missed off. Friday afternoon job I reckon.

30 amp fuse is to replace the standard Suzuki breaker do not get that mixed up with this mod.

 

[wsn03]

6 minutes ago, jonny1bump said:

The base red should of had a crimp it's been missed off. Friday afternoon job I reckon.

30 amp fuse is to replace the standard Suzuki breaker do not get that mixed up with this mod.

 

Ok understood re the missing crimp...still scary!

Understood re the 10A fuse, as per diagram. Do I need to know about replacing Suzuki breaker (hopefully not)

[jonny1bump]

Regarding relay something like Bosch 0332019110

The breaker is under battery they rot terrible also break and fail, if ever they trip they don't reset. Replace it with quality water tight 30 amp fuse.

[wsn03]

2 minutes ago, jonny1bump said:

Regarding relay something like Bosch 0332019110

The breaker is under battery they rot terrible also break and fail, if ever they trip they don't reset. Replace it with quality water tight 30 amp fuse.

Thankyou for the relay info.

I will have a look at the breaker. Do you have a link to the type of fuse you mean? Or is this on another thread?

[jonny1bump]

I never bothered when it broke I just soldered wire together because I had plan to make my own loom.

That's not really advisable only as short term get you home measure. Plenty have done that thou.

Edited November 29, 2018 by jonny1bump