Motogadget with a cdi?

[BigLT]

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I can't find it.

I am rebuilding an 'abandoned project' 1980 gsx250 twin with my son. Lots of work but a good challenge sorting out other people's mods.

It came with a motogadget basic unit which I'd like to use as it also has a bespoke billet yoke to house a motogadget mini.

I'm not an electrics fan but I can follow a wiring diagram pretty well - problem is, I can't find a diagram that includes the CDI box. 

Has anyone done this, or have access to a wiring diagram?

thanks in advance, and Merry Christmas/ Happy New year.

[BigLT]

after posting, just found this:

Problem is, I'd rather use buttons (which I have momentary and switch versions of) rather than original switchgear (which I don't). Any help from those of you who are better in the dark arts of electrics much appreciated.

How to Integrate a CDI Ignition with a mo.Unit – Revival Cycles

Waterproof Relay for Motorcycles – Revival Cycles

[johnr]

all you need from your motogadget is a live to feed the cdi. make up a sub loom to cover just the ignition, coils, pickups, cdi box, then you just have a live feed into it from the motogadget thats switched with the ignition.

[BigLT]

Thanks John, I have been looking at the loom that 'Revival cycles' and thought I'd got it. Your solution seems simpler though...I'll get my small brain around that now.

If I fail, I'll be back! Thanks again.

[johnr]

ive been wiring my kat and ive found it easier to see it as a series of smaller sub looms al feeding back to the control box. that way you can wire one small sub loom at a time and it keeps everythign seperated.

[BigLT]

Thanks -  I stayed pretty much standard with my Katana; I had a good loom to start which made it easier. I doesn't look flash, but it works.

I need to get better at wiring though, so I am going to persevere with this motogadget - this and the cheaper alternatives like the X21 must make things neater and easier in the long run??

[Joseph]

37 minutes ago, BigLT said:

This and the cheaper alternatives like the X21 must make things neater and easier in the long run??

Pretty much the same amount of wires, so, no, it won't clear anything up that much. The factory loom can't be any simpler, and as long as no wires are frayed and no spade terminals are corroded nothing can really go wrong 

[BigLT]

Agreed - it was certainly easier doing my Katana which I cleaned, installed and checked in a couple of hours from memory...but I don't have a loom with this one unfortunately so I'm going to 'happily' embrace the struggle and try to learn some stuff along the way.

[imago]

11 hours ago, BigLT said:

Thanks John, I have been looking at the loom that 'Revival cycles' and thought I'd got it. Your solution seems simpler though...I'll get my small brain around that now.

If I fail, I'll be back! Thanks again.

It's worth keeping in mind that the wiring diagrams for the M-Unit are based on connection to a CDI, Suzuki GS/GSX ignition units aren't CDI's they're ignitors.

In simple terms a CDI supplies power so it needs a fairly hefty supply which is why they suggest using a relay to use a smaller power supply to switch a larger power supply.

An ignitor doesn't supply power, it switches a path to ground to complete the circuit. The power goes direct to the coils and the ingnitor completes the path to earth when it recieves a signal from the pick up. So a relay isn't required as the CDI just needs a low amperage 12v supply.

10 hours ago, Joseph said:

Pretty much the same amount of wires, so, no, it won't clear anything up that much. The factory loom can't be any simpler, and as long as no wires are frayed and no spade terminals are corroded nothing can really go wrong 

The loom for an M-Unit uses 40-50% fewer wires and only a single main fuse, so it's a huge reduction in wiring and over all electrical clutter.

The only time that's not the case is when they're grafted in to the existing loom and switches and they become just a very expensive replacement for a fuse box, which is a waste of time and money IMHO.

 

[Joseph]

But you still need to power every single function of the bike + ground, so unless it's run by magic, 50% (50% !!) is not happening

There are 5 wires to an original fuse box + a flasher relay and starter relay (that is stuck to the battery, so...)

But i do agree on the fact that it is a waste of time and money 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Joseph

[imago]

32 minutes ago, Joseph said:

But you still need to power every single function of the bike + ground, so unless it's run by magic, 50% (50% !!) is not happening

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.

The photo below is a complete loom I made up to replace the Bandit 1200 or GSX 1100  loom using an M-Unit blue. At its thickest point it's about the size of my little finger a Bandit loom at its thickest point is three times the size. The replacement loom covers every single function that the Bandit loom did. As an example of what's been replaced, all of the wires which ran from the bar switches have been replaced by a single wire. There are no longer any relays, and all the wiring to/from the fuse box have gone because there is no fuse box.

When you also add in the extra functionality that comes with it (pulsed brake lights, hazards, BlueTooth, immobiliser etc etc) the difference between the old an new is night and day. 

[eddiegsx]

20 minutes ago, imago said:

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.

The photo below is a complete loom I made up to replace the Bandit 1200 or GSX 1100  loom using an M-Unit blue. At its thickest point it's about the size of my little finger a Bandit loom at its thickest point is three times the size. The replacement loom covers every single function that the Bandit loom did. As an example of what's been replaced, all of the wires which ran from the bar switches have been replaced by a single wire. There are no longer any relays, and all the wiring to/from the fuse box have gone because there is no fuse box.

When you also add in the extra functionality that comes with it (pulsed brake lights, hazards, BlueTooth, immobiliser etc etc) the difference between the old an new is night and day. 

Impressive set up you have there @imagomy brain hurts just looking at it.

[Joseph]

"SoRry BUt YoU cOulDn'T be MoRe WroNG" 

No need to apologise, i don't give a shit about being wrong.

I'd be interested in seeing a higher res photo of that system you show, though. 

You said a single wire was coming from the bars, but, looks like quite a tree to start with in the top left corner ? 

No gains in the lights department by the looks of it ?

Edited December 27, 2022 by Joseph

[imago]

4 minutes ago, eddiegsx said:

Impressive set up you have there @imagomy brain hurts just looking at it.

Once you get your head round it it's more straightforward than setting up carbs or engine building.

Wiring puts people off because you see a load wires. Just imagine if you saw carb drillings all laid out. 

[Joseph]

Also reduction in overall diameter is also down to the use of thinwall/thinner gauge wire ? 

[imago]

3 minutes ago, Joseph said:

"SoRry BUt YoU cOulDn'T be MoRe WroNG" 

No need to apologise, i don't give a shit about being wrong.

Just as well I suppose. 

4 minutes ago, Joseph said:

No gains in the lights department by the looks of it ?

Just as one example, a wire from the brake light switch, two from the headlamp switch, another from the rear brake switch and a pair going to the rear for stop and tail. 

Replaced by a single CAN Bus from the bars, a single from the rear brake switch and a single to operate both the brake light and tail light. 

Talking of not giving a shit, I'm not writing it all out long hand and I couldn't care less what you believe. The info is out there  just try not to confuse what you don't like with what does or doesn't work. 

[imago]

3 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Also reduction in overall diameter is also down to the use of thinwall/thinner gauge wire ? 

OK champ that's me out. 

[johnr]

you can reduce wiring if you use electronic switches. mine have two buttons on the right bar that do engine on and engine kill as well as starter motor, but use just two thin wires to do the operations, the left bar does hi lo beam headlight, horn and left right indicators, but again just uses 4 small trace wires to signal to the controller. regardless of this even with a minimal loom, its still complicated if you want to use a set of clocks that then require warning lights for hi beam indicators and neutral, oil, charge etc. ive just made a series of small sub looms that plug into the main loom, this is more for my own use than anything else as front lights, rear lights, ignition, clocks are all sub looms that connect sepeately, no fuses are needed and no relays for lights etc. its still about 1/3rd of the original loom in terms of the number of wires needed. but when youve a bike with several butchered loomsof unknown condition, you might as well start from scratch and wire it to suit yourself, cos nobody else will be working on it for you.

 

[imago]

4 minutes ago, johnr said:

 but when youve a bike with several butchered loomsof unknown condition, you might as well start from scratch and wire it to suit yourself, cos nobody else will be working on it for you.

I reckon the biggest benefit to a rewire whether you use an M-Unit or similar controller or just go for a like for like set up with mods is that you can get rid of most of the multiplugs which aside from bodges are the main cause of problems and faults.

To avoid using connectors in the loom I wired the main loom as a 'Y' section. You can see it on the left hand side of the photo above, the lower group of wires are for the headlamp and the upper group are the warning lights for the clocks. The two hanging down are the LH and RH indicators. Doing it that way the only connections are to the M-Unit and whatever's at the end of each wire. I'll run a single feed wire to the ECU and then there will be a loom from the ECU to the various bits and bobs.

[BigLT]

Thanks both. I've not had a chance to get onto it yet. I have buttons a bit like the ones you mention John.

I have to dismantle whatever was done around the mini clock thing and the warning lights first, but after that I think I have a plan now.

Another advantage is that the motogadget gets rid of a few of the relays etc...which is good when you don't have any handy.

Thanks again.

Liam

[imago]

30 minutes ago, BigLT said:

Another advantage is that the motogadget gets rid of a few of the relays etc...which is good when you don't have any handy.

That also highlights what is (IMHO) the biggest drawback for an M-Unit or similar control. If one bit/function goes tits up you have to replace the whole unit or send it back for repair/overhaul which is almost as expensive as replacement.

That's why I was saying in the earlier posts, you either go all out and convert the whole system to work with the M-Unit and get all of the benefits, bells and whistles, which makes it a worthwhile change.

Or, you repair and replace as necessary with standard wiring. 90% of the work there would be replacing connectors, or just the pins for a cheaper and just as effective solution.

 

[johnr]

ive taken the opportunity to wire all my connections with waterproof crimps whilst im doing it, theyre a faff with all the fiddly seals and such but i figure its one of those things you do once and then its done. ill post a few pics later on.

 

[johnr]

this was the kit i bought, aside from the starter relay which ive got a new one of, this will cover everything except the speedo which is a seperate loom as it does the gear selection as well as warning lights.

[johnr]

this is my plan for wiring the bike minus the clocks, all electrics under the seat go to the rear box, everything at the front goes to that box, and a single data cable links them.

[johnr]

i decided to go all belts and braces and fit the control boxes inside a waterproof box thats fixed under the seat, the box is 100mm x 80mm which indicates the sixe of the unit, wires out were wrapped and heat shrinked so i could fit a rubber grommit to seal it. as this bike will be living outside, i just want it all weatherproof.