slingy1157

Good, some real data to start with. So SRR, first thoughts are, those figures all look completely wrong. The engines getting hit with nearly full timing as soon as it trys to run!! But it also depends a little bit on what the engine load values 1-7 represent. Is this TPS or is this MAP? Is 1 like 0% TPS and and 7 70%? or does each represent 30kpa or something? For a Turbo application it really needs to be MAP values or its of little use. I take it that the rows and collumns dont stop at 7 either and that you can scroll up and right to reveal more columns and rows? But to start with i would simply emulate a stock ignition timing. Not sure what stock EFE timing is so check your manual, but if idle is say 9* , then fill all columns for 0-1000 revs with 9's, then if max advance is say 34* @ 2500rpm, then fill that colum with that value, then get the calculator out and work the other 4 values , so the 1300rpm column would be all 14, 1600rpm column 19, 1900rpm column 24, and 2200rpm column 29, which then gets us to 2500rpm column at 34. keep punching all these numbers to fill the whole table even if the rows and collums go higher than 7. Everything above 2500rpm will be 34 in all bins in both axis of the table So by doing this the advance will go up by RPM only with no correction for engine load, then from 2500 to redline it will be the same value. This will be the base to build the table from once we know everything else is right and what the engine load numbers represent and their increments propperly. try this for starting and revving. but there might be actual cranking settings as well which will effect starting. But man that is some basic software! Tunerstudio is a lightyear ahead of this and so much easier to use. But, lets see how we go with this still for know. Great work with the pictures, But what we really need is pictures just like youve done for each parameter listed. But for starters , H would be intersting (as i presume this is cranking not cracking) E, and F.

Indeed, very nice setup, dont know how practical as there will be massive heat soak from the OC to the IC but sure does look good, and will have some effect Any cooling of the inlet charge will result in more power for the same boost so why not, and the extra volume wouldn't do any harm either.

Yes it is

Aggreed, wont be any pressure drop in pipe work. Maybe a bit across the cooler if its sized too small, but over all i dont think the extra volume would have any negatives. I reckon with the volume of air turbos move it would pressurise it up just as quick and if anything you get the advantage of the extra volume being a buffer, so when you grab a gear and the BOV vents it cant dump all the volume of pressurised air so rather than the turbo building boost from scratch each gear change, there might be 3 or 4 psi of charge left so the turbo only has to build from there to boost level. On a bike, all of these distances really are so short between the front and rear that i really dont think any of these factors will be huge. More hypothetical anyway lol

Well there you go, will add that one to the memory banks, cheers But , at the same time, if adding fuel using the cold start enrichment device is helping it to push through, i'd of thought that the problem may be more settings related or how the tables are set up, or how the map sensor is calibrated or similar, rather than the crank pickup? The more brains on this one the better

Why not go the other way and rear mount the IC and leave the OC front mount ? The more the volume the better really between the turbo and inlets as it acts as a buffer and pressure reservoir and keeps the ic well away from all other heat sources. Could even get one of those curved cores to kinda follow the shape of the wheel abit, or 2 smaller cores welded together to kink it over the wheel etc? Could work

Ok, heres another one, similar but different this is a 750 turbo front mount IC and rear mount OC

Heres a bike here in OZ, front mount IC with OC under seat. Its very neat install and uses the sub frame tubes to carry the oil to the cooler. the OEM cooler lines are looped together at the front of the engine and then he took the oil from the head lines at the back of the block. same bike just before the silver paint Man this new picture loading shit is the bomb!! So freaking easy know Anyway, hope that little lot helps abit

So i take it from the fact you arnt running a coolant sensor and the comment about turning up the choke, that you have a potentiometer or variable resistor with a knob on it that you use for cold start enrichment? That's fine, dont think it maters too much. But your comment about using it helps push the rpm up under boost is interesting. Right, the next bit is uber boring but very necesary. As i can't find the software to download on the net (they must keep it closely guarded lol) i really need to see screen shots of every window of the softaware, everydrop down menu, and every table so i can compare the data in there to what you have and see how the ecu is setup to control off the sensors. Once we have confirmed all the settings look good then maybe we can start looking at opperation of components.

If it starts ok which it seems to, and runs ok to red line while stationary, or with the up pipe disconnected i doubt very much it has much to do with the crank pick up side of things. If it starts stumbling at a certain rev range whether its under boost or not, or under load or not id say pick up as well, but if its only really while starting to boost i would say not. RPM is RPM, boost dosnt have any effect on the crank pick up. But, this may cause problems from a fine tuning aspect later on with unstable timing at higher rpm etc. But just for a minute,lets continue looking elsewhere for the problem. Out of interest, what crank wheel and pick up setup are you using ? 2 stock pickups and a single tooth wheel?

Do you have the software to connect to the ECU and look at the settings and tables? If you do, have you spent any time to learn what all the input fields mean, and what its using to control the fueling and cold starts etc. This is where i would be starting. ANY ECU is a powerful tool but is only as good as the data it has to calculate from. It dosnt know what engine its on and cannot preddict what is required. Its all about correct data entry lol. So, lets get this bugger sorted, Please answer the following questions so we can see where we are at: Do you have the software to acces the ECU? What model of Racetech is it? Does it control Spark as well? (looks like wasted spark dyna coils still?) Does it have a MAP sensor and what type? Does it have a TPS and what type? Does it have a coolant sensor in the oil anywhere? Does it have an inlet air temp sensor and what type? What size Injectors and high or low impedance ( from memory high are about 13-14ohms across the pins of each injector, low are only 2-3 ohms or something) Does it have a wideband on the bike either stand alone or wired into the ECU? Has it ever run propperly on this efi system? What fuel pump and reg is it using? Did you build the system or get it done by someone? Do you know if its using MAP or a combination of MAP and TPS to control the fueling? I know its a lot of questions but there are lots of minds available here to help and info is the key to helping. The racetech looks quite capable so i'm sure it will work, we just need to know what its should be doing to help. It takes ALOT of time to come to grips with the software and terminology for the ECU. The more you understand the software, the more powerful it becomes as a tool when combined with the ecu. Be honest, anyone can piece together an efi system these days, its quite straightforward, but understanding the software and correct data entry is the tricky bit. Get your head around this and it dosnt matter if your system isn't working as you can trouble shoot quite quickly using the data being given to you from the system and the ecu via the software. Looking on the Racetech website, they will still support and provide software for older model ecu's, so you could get the latest available software update for it, learn how to use it and the datalogger and see if you can tune from the logs or get it dynotuned, but i think maybe like Bruteforce suggested, swap it to a microsquirt/megesquirt as there is enough people here to help to get it going, should be quite straightforward as its already efi, and then the Tunerstudio software isnt alot of money and is GREAT. The auto tuning works a treat. laptop in a rucksack and ride around while it tunes it for you. I cant stress how good this works. Dynos will just be for power runs once you've used it. You can even get the SHadowdash android app and datalog using your phone or tablet. It also has great crank pickup logging facilities so you can even check the signal the ecu is getting from the crank trigger for correctness and function without an oscilloscope. Either way, whatever ECU you use, learn the ways of the software, understand what is being used to control the fueling and how that relates to the tables. Its all about the data

Mmmm..... But isnt he also the guy that plumbed your crankcase breather into the waste gate actuator? Is he experienced in tuning ( cars or bikes) or is he experienced in tuning turbo bikes? As thats two completely different questions in my book. What about Ignition timing? 12psi on 9-1 Cr with efi to manage fueling i would say stock timing would be fine, and with the drop in CR, bring it all in abit earlier to help pickup. Then maybe just take 2-3 deg out above 10psi but i wouldnt worry too much I take it the new ECU they put in is doing the spark still as well? Do you know for a fact its making 12psi or are you just going off what the wastegate actuator spring is suppose to work at? Like there could be a boost leak, though i'd of thought the tuner would see this from logging the MAP and generating the tables. Like these engines are suppose to be about 137bhp at the wheel NA.(according to the interwebs) So if we take it that with the drop in CR and restrictions in the inlet and exhaust from the turbo system that the new NA power would probably be down to about 120bhp at the wheel. So lets do the math on that at 12psi. (12/14.7) x 100 = 81.6 % of 1 bar is 12psi (120 x 81.6) + 120 = 217.92 bhp @ 12psi theoretically So this is about what should be achievable all things working the way they should be. Anyway, keep at it, at least its mapped and is giving you a baseline to work off.

Nice job . 278 hp is an awesome result. The fueling on the lower HP run runs off the scale rich though? Whats the go with that? And what boost for each run ? Cheers Slingy

Noice . Should be fun. Have you got a check valve on the oil line to the turbo? if not just be carefull about oil leaking into the turbo after shutdown. The sidestand here is your friend. Always stop the motor on the sidestand and you will never have any trouble anyways. Stop it on the centre stand or paddock stand with out a check valve and prepare for alot of smoke the next time it starts up. All to do with the oil level in relation to the oil take of point to the turbo. Anyway, good job

OOoooooohhhh.......( druel dripping onto T shirt)

Nice to see this going again. Whats the current spec/ Components of the EFI system?

And on the not a suzuki note, i remember a really nice turbo XJR that had an undermount intercooler. The scoop was shaped like a bit of a belly pan so air went up through the cooelr. The link pipe then went up through the swing arm and into the plenum from the rear so it kept the bike looking really clean on both sides. I will see if i can find some pictures of that one too.

I was thinking of somethink similar when i still had plastics on. was planning on moulding the fairings around it to duct the air and blend it in to the style of the bike and avoid having to move the oil cooler. But heres one that was done by S& R Pro in Sydney Australia on a CB1300. Oh shit, not a suzuki but its only a reference photo for position and size, hope its ok with the mods ?

Mains are the same i thought, but big ends are different though so you cant put the short stroke rods onto the longstroke crank. And maybe the teeth number on the crank so may need the clutch basket to match the crank. I looked into all this when i had my 750 turbo.

Welcome back Marco. This has always been one if my favourite bikes and greatly enjoyed seeing its progression. ☺

As has been said, it takes some time for all the oil in the gallerys above the main oil gallery where the turbo feed is taken from to empty after shut down, and while this is happening oil will still be siphoning into the turbo. It is actually better to have the pump as far away from the turbo as possible to give a bit of volume to fill with oil while this is happening. And let the pump run a little after shutdown or fit a check valve of some kind. Oh and Merry Christmas everyone

Alot of oil can linger in the snail, or even drain back down from the turbo coating the inside of the up pipe and pooling in the collector, this being the lowest point of the exhaust. So one event of oil passing the seals can have on going simptons. The only way to trouble shoot is unfortunately to strip all the exhaust off ,clean, re assemble and test again. Very tedious indeed lol

I would be cleaning up all the oil really well then do some testing with the drain just into a jug and see how much oil is flowing at different revs and if it passes any oil into the exhaust housing while doing these tests for a start before jumping into rebuilds etc.

One thing I have learnt is its rarely the turbo itself causing these issues. They are a pretty basic device really. With the drain, where in relation to the clutch basket is it? Could the clutch be throwing oil up the drain and thus slowing the drain rate? This effect would probably get worse with revs too. Or even if the clutch basket was very close to the drain point inside the motor, there might be a windage component as well

Shit fella, I thought I was the only one with such shit problems. Keep at it, your so close now. Mines filled the exhaust with oil that many times now I am a bit paranoid about it lol