rerb
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Posts posted by rerb
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19 minutes ago, george 1100 said:
Regardless, you should check and make sure as per above post. At the end of the day, there is no benefit in the stud bottoming out, the most important thing is to have the correct thread embedment and enough thread for the nuts. When you look at the upper case, some threads start deeper than others
Makes sense, I wouldn't've thought it would be ok to run them not bottomed out. Red or blue threadlock? And what is moly? grease?
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I've just bought the AEM watermeth kit after giving up on an intercooler setup. Might be a little fancy, but I've always wanted one. Borg's intake temp calculator says my intake temps are close to 230f, and after a long pull the plenum will actually burn my legs, so I believe it. I think heat is a big reason I only gained 4 hp on the dyno going from 10 psi to 15. (Sub 200hp) as the engine is in perfect condition (just tore it down).
The plan is to progressively spray a 50/50 mix of water and meth into the charge pipe after the pilot tube starting at 8 psi, adjusting the "full" spray point depending on my AFRs. I don't want to be lower than 11.
An electrical engineering buddy of mine is going to help me code an afr/boost logger on an arduino for dirt cheap to help tune it.
The challenge now is just mounting everything up, I'm thinking using the passenger footpeg brackett for the tank. Once it's all together I'll head to the dyno and do some experiments with the MAP/IAT I'm buying from ignitech.
Anyone else gone this route before?
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Weird, they told me call back if the new ones have the same issue. I'm thinking it's a possible oversight from being designed for the gsxr and something in the bandits head is just a little thicker? Not sure. No spacers, std. Base gasket and head gasket.
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I think the O-ring blew out because I was stupid and put an o-ring where there wasn't supposed to be an o-ring... I put 2 extra head O-rings under the cylinders for whatever reason. I gave APE a call and they said I'll be fine without the washers, but if I can fit them I'll run them. Maybe i flipped the long threaded end of the stud around? I'll find out when i finish pulling it apart. Thanks for the help guys.
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Dug into it - not the O-rings. I think the copper base gasket started leaking because when I pulled the cylinders, it was stuck to the bottom of the jugs except for one section that was peeled away, exactly where oil was coming from. Probably a fuck-up during install.
Another weird thing: 2 of the APE head nuts rounded off at the stud. Completely lost their thread. Looking at it, it seems that the studs were nowhere tall enough for proper thread depth (only 4 or 5 threads deep in the nut). What gives? did I put them in the wrong location? I ordered a new set of studs and nuts. I know OEM studs have 3 sizes, but the APE ones seem to all be the same. If the new ones have the same issue, can I forgo the copper washer under the nut for more threads?
And finally, I had O-rings over 2 studs under the cylinders, but looking at suzukipartshouse diagrams, I don't see any listed. Does the base gasket not have o-rings over the front corner cylinder studs?
Thanks.
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Right. New set of genuine ones ordered, Curious to see how the old ones look
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4 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
Myths and rumours about bottom connected coolers abound - and they are all bollux!
Its been discussed many times before on OSS - simply put, oil comes in one side and out the other. Any air will be pushed out with the first 'injection' of oil. Both ends of the oil lines are submerged below oil level and so, once cooler is full, it WILL NOT drain as air cannot get in to replace the oil - Nature hates a vacuum ! The cooler will only drain when you drain the sump!
Its more likely crankcase compression is cause of blowing out a seal - its an unusual one to go, but it happens if non OEM seals used! If you are reaching those temps whilst 'cruising' I'd say your cooler is waaaaaay too small and needs an upgrade especially if dumping turbo heat into it also!
Ok good, the oil cooler is a 19 row earl's performance one, it better be big enough for the $350 I spent on it. I do have the oil fill cap style breather, but it sounds like drilling and tapping the clutch cover for another one would be a good idea.
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Went to the drag strip, fed her 18 psi, and now it needs the head taken off.
Either the temps (almost 100f) or prolonged RPMS caused the o-ring for the front oil drain tube to bork itself, spewing out oil whenever the motor runs. I know the head needs to come off, but has anyone seen this before? am I just unlucky? Anyways the bike still "runs" fine, I even wrapped the speedo on the way to the strip.
Assuming the temps might've had something to do with it, could both feeding and draining an oil cooler from the bottom cause oil to not reach all the veins in the core? The outside of the engine can boil water after just a relaxed interstate cruise. I'm thinking that since I installed the feed and drain on the bottom of the oil cooler, oil isn't getting properly cooled. Not sure if oil pressure is enough to spew it around the core or not, curious if anyone here has any thoughts about that. I didn't find any orientation instructions on the MFG's website.
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I replaced the turbo and it fixed my issue. But I also think a restrictor is needed, at least for the Shanghai spinners off of Eblag. Too much seepage from pressure.
Also.. why is all the oil seeping through turbos red and not amber? I've noticed it 3 times now.
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I also have oil through my whole intake after winter storage, I think the Eblag turbo seal crapped out. Replacing the turbo and will see if that cures it
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On 4/29/2022 at 5:16 AM, mikeyd said:
Always magnaflux the crank (68k miles!) Don't know about Bandit cranks, but 1127 cranks always showed something after mag, still used most of them. If you are in the states, also look up Marine crankshaft = great work. Always Carrillo H rods. Also, Big fan of dry film coatings on the bearings too, look up Calico coatings. I can tell you a few missed shifts - into the rev limiter, bike coming off the 2 stage at the line - sending the bike into the rev limiter, boost creeping to 32-33 lbs, never a problem. Shifting at 10,500. I pull my motor apart at the end of every season and don't really have to. Maybe luck, maybe a lot of oil changes, but always top $$ parts, and a billet crank., But You won't find anymore around the states.
I'd sell my car to find a nice billet crank...
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Hello, a year or so back when I was first starting my build and asking dumb questions I came across a few mentions of various older school books for tuning boosted things. They seemed to be held in high regard, but I can't seem to find them anymore. What do you guys recommend for readings about this topic? Thanks.
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16 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
Only got my own experience to go by - use Carillo if you want bulletproof. More people are using the Maxspeeding rods and I haven't heard of any more catastrophic failures than 'usual' - thing to watch for is use of fake ARP rod bolts which do fail. Turbo's are pretty soft on rods IMO - i've seen a lot more failures due to oil starvation / delivery failure than pure fatigue.
After 68k miles i'd give it a PROPER clean (the amount of shite that collects in oil passages is unreal), check journals for wear (across width and around) fit new bearings - job done. Polishing waste of time unless carving chunks off, balance maybe (especially if changing rods / pistons) but hardly noticeable as they are fairly good from the factory. After a clean, a Magnaflux inspection not a bad idea though!
good advice, APE seems to do some crank services for testing trueness and balancing, as well as magnaflux testing. I am assuming their rods will work for a '99 even though they list it for '93 to '98.
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Just sold my s4 so now it's timing to really focus on the bike - specifically in beefing up the motor. I'm looking for bottom end components to bulletproof it for high boost (18-20 psi, i'm at 15 right now). I know fatigue is usually what causes rods to go, so I don't want to pile on the miles on stock rods.
So far I see carillo rods, H-beams, but their website says it fits '97-'98 GSF1200 crank, but mine is a 99. Is there actually a difference between them? I thought they had the same motor.
I also see maxpeedingrods, but they are only advertised for 9k rpms and I've heard poor things about the brand. Of course the other option is 'busa rods, but a proper set of H beams would be better. One thing I haven't found is I-beam rods, which I was told were better for boost. For the guys here running 300+ with aftermarket rods, which ones would you recommend? Custom made is always an option but that would be a bit out of my budget.
I also see APE used to make race cranks, but has discontinued them. My motor has 68k miles on it, would the stock crank be fine with a balance and polishing? Thanks.
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On 11/3/2021 at 6:23 AM, MeanBean49 said:
If your going ignitech, ditch the Dyna coils and go for their COP's too. Its a better option
Looking back on this now as winter comes to an end here, wouldn't COP require sequential ignition? Or does their CDi box have outputs to each coil keeping wasted spark?
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On 1/3/2022 at 4:18 AM, Pasis said:
Thanks for the info. Yes, I also have an intercooler from a Volvo 740, it is thin, but huge, and looks like it is not efficient).
Of the 50mm thick intercoolers, I also found from Hilux and audi Q7 4.0l, but they have a great height, which probably does not make sense due to the limited space at 1100.What do you think about the turbo for these purposes? I haven’t come across the turbos of these old GSXRs yet, so there’s no experience with them.
At the moment I am considering Chinese copies of TD05-16G DSM, and GT 2860 and 2871. Power planned to get from the wheel is about 250 hp. The pressure is not higher than 1 bar. I need to get good acceleration for 100-200 (below 3 seconds), 200-250km\h.TD05 I like more in the layout plan, because the wastegate actuator is located at the bottom, not at the back. Otherwise, I don't really like this turbine)
I have a Chinese td05 16g, and I'd recommend a td04 instead. my td05 takes a hot minute to spool up, and isn't the best build quality. It also required me to source an outlet to be bolted onto the compressor housing in order to fit the charge pipe. The Hot side inlet is a different shape than most other turbos too, (if you're using the DSM clone like me) so future upgrades to ball bearing is limited without modifying or replacing the manifold.
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16 hours ago, Arttu said:
Just out of curiosity I did some brief feasibility calculations.
Let's assume we have a 300hp engine setup and we want to cool intake charge from 100°C down to 0°C.
For 300hp the air mass flow would be about 0.25kg/s. Thermal capacity of air is 1 kJ/(K*kg) So cooling that by 100°C releases 25kJ of energy per second.
Liquid nitrogen boils at -196°C and it's evaporation heat is about 200 kJ/kg. Thermal capacity is pretty much the same than for air, 1 kJ/(K*kg). So boiling 1 kg of liquid nitrogen and heating it up to 0°C takes about 400kJ of energy.
When we put all this together we find out that cooling the intake air will consume 25kJ / 400kJ/kg = 0.0625kg of liquid nitrogen per second. So 1kg would last about 16 seconds. Pretty much what I expected, not very practical for street use. But could work for drag racing or some other short duration use.
True, that does add quite the challenge for a successful model...
Now what about dry ice? Assuming I'm at the track, filling a container with dry ice and plumbing it Into the intercooler core then out to atmosphere, having either a blower fan or some sort of venturi to pull the dry ice vapor through the core.
It's still a good -109 f when it sublimes, and leaves behind no moisture. I know water based intercoolers can get corroded cores, so this also seems like a plus. It's also less dangerous than nitrogen, and would require less advanced metering and control for a safe and functional result
This idea might be far from a practical, streetable solution, but it would be pretty fun and unique to build... and hopefully get me a good grade
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On 12/3/2021 at 5:25 AM, Madb said:
slightly off topic but Could you use LN2 to cool the IC instead of water? Just a thought.
i've been thinking about this more and more, next semester I'm taking a thermodynamics and heat transfer class, maybe it's the perfect project for the final...
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7 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
No empirical evidence here but I suspect the 'instant' cooling effect is real but the minimal power increase is down to the water taking up volume in the cylinder whilst providing no combustibles. The air density may increase slightly due to the cooling and so aid with detonation but I suspect any added fuel serves hardly any 'useful' purpose other than a bit more cooling / lowering the AFR even further. Carrying useful quantities of water mix will pose problems and risk of running out whilst at high boost could prove terminal - maybe good at the track where levels can be monitored but for a road bike even with the inherent impracticalities an air 2 air IC alone or with the use of E85 must be a better solution long term. I know I could run my system with pump piss up to around 1 bar boost very safely but using 2+ bar boost, I must use decent fuel - C16 race fuel or similar - easy choice, as nothing is free, there are always trade off's!
Great pointss guys, as it was said It would mostly be used for intake temp, less of a power adder. As for monitoring it, that's not too concerning as while it is a street bike, it's not a full daily. I'd also use the university's shop to fabricate some nice large storage tanks. Mostly want to increase my safety margin at high boost on pump gas. E85 is a dream, but carb seals and the fact that the nearest e85 gas station is over 4 hours away, it's unobtainable
if I decide to go for it I would probably start with just water with a temp sensor fitted to see if it does anything. I can see tuning for meth being a pain, but I built this bike to experiment. If I give it a shot I'll keep you all posted
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Now this may sound crazy, but... how about water or watermeth injection? It cools the air almost instantly, raises octane, and keeps the motor cool... its also badass to say "I have a turbocharged watermeth injected motorcycle".
The only challenge I can see is just tuning it, fitting the tanks to the bike and getting the methanol.
Anyone here played around with it?
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12 hours ago, Fredrik_Steen said:
With a intercooler your boost pressure will drop and you gain hp (denser air)
It's a hassle to make room for intercoolers, but it will be worth it
The sloppy bandit cams ain't funny at all, if you can find something else it would be more worth it than porting the head.
that thing is crazy...
Well i'll take everyone's advice and run over to the shop to tear down the bike and sort out a spot for an I/C. thanks for the replies
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18 hours ago, Fredrik_Steen said:
If you calculate it in matchbot intercooler are more worth it than port the head.
Do you have stock bandit camshafts?
according to the calculator my intake temps are above 220 degrees... def seems like an intercooler is a good idea. And stock cams as of now, but my peak torque is pretty high up so I'm contemplating GSXR cams as mine have some pitting and wear on the lobes.
The most space effective option for an intercooler seems to be water to air, but it seems like a lot to setup a water pump, lines, and a heat transfer. I might be able to get away with a front mount, but I have a large aftermarket oil cooler which takes up a lot of space...
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5 hours ago, Fredrik_Steen said:
You can calculate your intake temp in matchbot:
https://www.borgwarner.com/aftermarket/boosting-technologies/performance-turbochargers/matchbot
What turbo and intercooler are you running?
Thanks for the replies, sounds like enough of a reason to go through with it!
And it's Td05 16g, no intercooler atm. Not sure what options I'd have for one that isn't super $$ or space consuming
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8 hours ago, no class said:
seeing that you are in USA ….. several choices available but expensive….. Holeshot performance , Star racing , APE , Klymenko flo ….. sooo many others…takes your pick
Thanks for the recommendation.
I've got a probably stupid question, but I've asked a few people and haven't gotten a straight answer yet.
Since porting the heads should make the motor more efficient at making power with boost, if there were 2 identical motors both making 250 hp, but one was ported on 12 psi, and the other not ported on 15 psi, would the ported one be less likely to blow since it's running lower boost pressure? Or does it only depend on the power output of the motor?
Seems like it'll have a pretty straight forward answer, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks
Watermeth
in Forced Induction
Posted
This too crossed my mind, going by the compressor map (and rough estimation) I think I'm dangerously close to the surge line, as the 16g should be fine for 400 cfm. Assuming 200-250hp high revving I should only be around 200 cfm(?) If this is right I highly doubt I'm overspinning it (unless my turbo is complete junk), but rather not being able to spin it fast enough.
My solution? Skimming the heads. I'm going to drop a mm off the cylinders before reinstall, and see if that helps bump things up a bit.