wp 1100, swingarm swap etc

[iamhiding]

yeah so, long story short an 'unrelated forum bike' spat me down the road at a hundred and silly in what used to be my favourite corner haha and i sort of wound up inheriting an 1100 wp when i got out of hospital. the old man's circumstances changed, i was without a running bike / with many a project to be finished and i wound up with one of his bikes basically. bit weird, not really used to having things handed to me. have a soft spot for golden era bike looks but i didn't think this was my kind of thing with it being a big, heavy water boiler. wasn't even sure if i was even going to keep it but as it turns out i fucking love it in spite of its many flaws. 

 

 

 

pics really don't do the thing justice, it was proper tidy for a 93' w/ taz racing relentless livery. put a fair few miles on it at the arse end of summer.

carbs were desperate for a clean and occasionally dropped a cyl at idle but was fine once warmed up so i ran it as was till winter kicked in and i had time to take it off the road and play with it, it pulled strong but not as strong as it should, pulled to redline in 5th nae' bother and crazy stable in the high speed sweepers, tyres were fucked about 6 years ago before i got it, well out of date and squared off, terrifying to ride in the wet for sure, shouldn't have been riding it like i was or digging into the old man's chicken strips, brakes were a bit sticky but other than that it was mechanically sound and like i said very tidy overall. just had new discs all round, a recent chain/sprocket set, what appears to be a full stainless 4-1 remus system,  braided lines and hyper pro shock.

 

 

parked up as soon as winter kicked in and out came the gs5 hack.

//

I'm about 5'' 11 / 6ft and riding the 11 is like sitting on a witches broom, agony on the knees after 30-45 mins so I'm thinking about dropping the pegs 10-25mm just so its a bit more usable.

other than the riding position being extreme and its weight the biggest flaw is that it handles like a fridge, really need to keep it on the throttle to get round the corners which is probably down to a combination of the suspension needing setup and the tyres being well passed it. 

so anyway... after a bit of research i decided on and managed to find a braced arm from a 750 ws at reasonable cost and I've been putting the time in so i'll throw a writeup here for anyone who's interested. nothing that hasn't been done before like.

already a fair bit into sorting the old beastie out but i'm not posting everything at once so updates are to follow 

//

 

 

[badgerkdd]

That's a lovely machine, glad you're enjoying it! Now stop lurking and get posting up your upgrades

[iamhiding]

5 hours ago, badgerkdd said:

That's a lovely machine, glad you're enjoying it! Now stop lurking and get posting up your upgrades

cheers dude  and okay mum haha

 

 

 

aye so i got my hands on that beastie ^^ probably paid a spot too much but they don't seem to come up often, its a ws 750 and its either 40mm shorter, 60mm or 2'' depending on who's measured it online haha either way its a spot shorter and i'll get an accurate measurement myself when its on the bike. manky, bit of corrosion bit scored but the rear axle, calliper / bracket and chain guard present. just missing the dust seals, thrust washers and the rubber chain buffer. i had planned on part polishing the main faces and leaving all the hidden stuff protected with the factory finish but damn that factory coating is tough. started rubbing it down but couldn't be arsed really  tried a few things then ended up getting my hands on some brutal paintstripper, the kind you can't buy off the shelves in the uk and it still wouldn't touch the coating. so the part polish got abandoned and its getting blasted back and powder coated now.

 

//

 

tyres were desperate and some very clever person thought it was a great idea to lacquer over the polished lip on the wheels many a moon ago. needless to say its a hell of a flakey mess nowadays. so that was the next job.

 

 

 

^^ and you wonder why it handled like a fridge... ridden worse on smaller bikes but they're well passed it.

 

 

paintstripper basically wiped the old lacquer off...  left some marks from the flaking etc but its good stuff haha won't put so much faith in masking tape again, stipper bled through slightly in places.

 

stripped prior to sanding in comparison to what it was like before.

 

front wheel masked, painted and lacquered no bother. just aiming for tidy at the moment, not shooting for perfect. hope to get them powder coated at some point, just didn't want to pull the bearings etc so paint will suffice.

 

and in true ''everything seems to be going well'' fashion the rear reacts. think it was down to a bad batch of primer as every time I've touched that tin i got a reaction, 3 separate times it screwed me over.

 

flattened back.

 

 

acid etched, no longer taking chances.

 

 

painted, lacquered, painted edge cut back in and machine polished lips. you'd never guess the back reacted so badly, not perfect but a good save i reckon. fresh pilot power 2ct on the rear and a front to match i had lying around.

 

spot of tyre detail put in, didn't fancy going over the top and doing all the lettering, just kept it subtle. 

 

oh yeah, i like taking pictures so this will likely be pic heavy 

 

//

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by iamhiding
typos

[badgerkdd]

Acid etch is always the way to go on wheel rims ( in my experience anyway ) it helps a bit with cack handed tyre changers chipping paint off, gives a better base to bond the top coat to. Looking very smart though .

[almostthere]

those wheels look good, looking forward to this build

[iamhiding]

1 hour ago, badgerkdd said:

Acid etch is always the way to go on wheel rims ( in my experience anyway ) it helps a bit with cack handed tyre changers chipping paint off, gives a better base to bond the top coat to. Looking very smart though .

for sure, acid etch and high build primers are life savers in my book  just wish i had the space for a proper painting set up.

1 hour ago, almostthere said:

those wheels look good, looking forward to this build

yeah thanks guys  easy to underestimate just how much time goes into stuff like that. for a post you can glance over in 30 secs, theres about a months worth of weekends and every other evening put in haha definitely needed done and I'm glad its paid off 

[almostthere]

I know I've been doing mine for 3 years thought it would take 3 months still nowhere near done

[iamhiding]

 

gave all the disk bolts a good clean up with a wire wheel whilst they were off, ended up having to replace the rears as a fair few were rounded or starting to go. picked up a titanium set listed for fitting 89-92 but its the same dimensions for the watermelons bolts.

 

 

shite pic but yeah ti bolts  I'm sure that will make a massive difference to the bikes weight problem... hahaha nah in all honesty they were cheaper than a steel set which is crazy, otherwise theres no danger id be wasting money on ti bolts. its also impressive as to just how light they are in comparison.

//

so... i had a twice crashed and mangled old remus innovation can wedged onto my now winter hack gs500 which was the exact same can on the 11. those old remus cans are a bit of a pain to work with as the link pipes are 80mm odd where they join to the can making it difficult to find another slip on as they're typically in the 50mm range it seems. anyway i gutted the reflective baffle can and robbed the ends to build something up.

 

  

 

can't find a pic of it before but it was a rashed up dented mess of a can and you can't really stubby cans with reflective internals easily or well typically, although i'm guilty of doing so in the past.

 

 

using leftovers from a viper i had previously stubbied, i robbed the external alloy sleeve (about 8'' in length), packing and the internal perforated tube. this is where it gets a bit interesting. because the remus's entrance (where exhaust gas flows in) wasn't made to mate with this absorptive race can style internal and that the 80mm odd bit is so massive in comparison to most cans i had to make up a wee plate. nothing special, just a bit of tin i could cut to to size and was soft enough to bend slightly when pressed together to help seal it up if you follow me. i don't actually have a pic of the remus entrance to show but when you see the can complete and on the bike you'll know what i mean surely. 

 

 

notched the tube and bent the tabs grip the plate. plate looks rough but when you're working with minimal tools you do what you have to haha.

 

 

the finished can  more than tidy enough. so obviously that plate pressed against the entrance as the can was pressed together, instant gasketed up and riveted. really, its just a bit of an experimentation as I've never seen or heard of reflective baffled cans being converted into absorptive 'race cans'. really it wasn't all that difficult to knock together and if the end plate doesn't hold for whatever reason then its not hard to pop a couple of rivets out and redo it. good fun either way.

 

 

 

just to show the size of the link / entrance in comparison to the perforated tube and if you look at the old internals the end plate was welded into the rest of the chambers, which is what i needed to emulate to keep the packing in. it was damn loud before but yeah... its seriously frickin' loud now, almost painfully so. sounds proper mean like an 11 should  i'll just need to find a decent hanger, its difficult to do so as the 11 has an awkward spacing and the aftermarket isn't exactly as it would have been in the 90s.

 

//

[iamhiding]

4 hours ago, almostthere said:

I know I've been doing mine for 3 years thought it would take 3 months still nowhere near done

haha ohhhhhh i know it too well man! i'm 16 months into my other ''winter project'' at the moment  keep finding new projects to distract myself with and theres always something needing sorted. hoping to have all 3 bikes roadworthy this summer.

[badgerkdd]

Nice work on the can, looks like a 'bought' one . Oh and I can imagine it is VERY loud !  

[iamhiding]

On 6 May 2016 at 7:40 PM, badgerkdd said:

Nice work on the can, looks like a 'bought' one . Oh and I can imagine it is VERY loud !  

cheers dude. yeah i love LOUD but i genuinely winced haha its harsh as fuck.  

[iamhiding]

 

pulled the carbs for a quick clean to get everything running right before changing anything. airbox is a bit of a bastard when re-assembling but its really not as bad as they're reputed to be. 

 

 

gave inside and out a good clean, quite surprised at how tidy they are for carbs of that age, really inside there wasn't any reason to justify how the bike was running.

 

 

however all 4 needles were on their lowest setting, manual calls for clip-2 if i mind right. 2 diaphragms were pinched in the caps, the 2 needles connected to that had some scoring. air mix screws were all over the place, cyl1 = 2-1/4 .. cyl 2 = 2-3/4 .. cyl 3 = 4 .. cyl 4 was seized and the head rounded but yeah whoever last touched them needs a skelp. no wonder it was running lumpy and a bit down on power.

 

got the dremel out, but the bit down then notched the mix screw. problem solved.

fired it all back together, run much smoother just needed a balance 

 

[iamhiding]

 

just the usual trials and tribulations when dealing with header bolts but yeah pulled the headers for a well overdue clean.

 

 

 

wire wheels work wonders, I've since found out that wonder wheels or any wheel cleaning acid does a damn good job at cleaning headers but i think these were beyond that.

 

 

countless hours. 

 

 

excuse the pic overload haha shiny shiny, still to hit them with a fine sanding pad and give them a wipe over with autosol. certainly back to good health though.

 

 

 

 

 

[iamhiding]

threaded insert / nutsert / rivnut spinning in the frame, had to drill the head off the bolt, what a bastard of a job with blunt drill bits.

 

 

yeah those rivnuts are absolute bastriding things. pulled it out the frame and got a shot of a rivnut gun.

 

 

bit of an awkward tool in comparison to a regular rivet gun but yeah there you go for anyone who's never seen one.

 

 

fresh nivnut  in the frame. winning at life haha

 

 

 

couple of pics with the wee stubby on before i dropped the headers for cleaning and whatnot. probably a good thing water boilers don't make as nice a fighter as the oilies with the radiator overhanging as its far too good for it. heres hoping i don't put it down the road.

 

 

 

 

[iamhiding]

 

picked up a seat cowl a while back, just a shame it was cadbury purple. sanded back to filler, acid etched, painted and lacquered with rattle cans. the black isn't really a match for the rest of the paintwork but its better than cadbury purple for now  when sanding back i uncovered a couple of pores / air gaps in the filler which is a bit of a pain. it'll need to be refilled when the the rest of the bike gets fresh paint.

 

 

bastarding sheared rearset bolt, was in solid but i got it though.

 

 

the inner castle nut grub. got both tools made up for the outer nut and the grub for all of £20 or so from some guy in theifbay. tried to make my own out of sockets and made an arse of it. the bolts aren't cheap so screwdriver and a hammer was out of the question. really its worthwhile just getting the tools for the job and getting an impact driver on it, nips off in no time and saves countless hours and all the wasted swearing for something else haha. 

 

 

asymmetrical banana arm off  none of the 20mm dust seals, thrust washers or the chain buffer are really compatible with the 25mm arm, go figures. 

 

 

wound up spending a small fortune putting this lot together as cheaply as i could for the new arm. still missing a dust seal though.

[iamhiding]

 

couple of things i noticed on disassembly i didn't particularly like. the space between the fork on the shock and the knuckle seems massive. checked the parts fiche and theres no spacers or anything missing so I'm guessing its meant to be like that.

 

 

same again with the knuckle attaching to the frame. just doesn't seem right. 

 

 

front sprocket bolt was about hanging off, fair to say I'm glad I'm pulling the thing to bits to cover all this stuff.

[iamhiding]

 

bottom is WP11 dog bones with the welded bit, arse of a setup to work with.

middle 750 WS

top 750/1100WS jack up kit. think its 40mm lift.

going to stick with the standard WS ones for now until the bikes been put through its paces and I'm comfortable with the massive change in wheelbase.

 

 

top WP11

bottom WS750

 

the only differences are that the 11 knuckle seems to be slightly longer overall and that the middle bit where the dog bones attach is narrower on the 750 one, think it took a smaller bolt as well. using the dog bone as a visual guide you can see the width difference in the middle bit. the other two mounting points are like for like between the two knuckles. obviously when you're doing the way you use the knuckle thats meant for the swingarm. 750 for 750 or 11 for 11, it'll be easier for retaining appropriate swingarm angle which i completely forgot to measure on the original arm.

 

\

test fitted the 750 knuckle and everything seems to just swap onto it.

 

 

really am impressed with just how clean everything seems to be on the bike... its the oldest thing I've owned and the cleanest by far. someone has really put the time into it.

 

 

[iamhiding]

 

 

used an orbital sander to take back chain rash, scratches, pitting etc

 

 

taken the most of it back but some is pretty much inaccessible or far too deep. won t be noticed either way.

 

 

 

 

arm mostly sandblasted. took about a month whilst working with time restraints and the cabinet being the best part of a 30 mile round journey. the compressor only allows for about 40 seconds of good flow before pressure drops to far and you have to wait a couple of minutes before blasting another 40 secs... tedious stuff but its awesome having friends with their own setup. not many people with have direct access to stuff like that.

 

 

powdercoated! =D this was a bit of an experiment really, clear powder onto a blasted surface. its come out sort of a light speckly very glossy grey. comparable to the grey used on steel swingers but nothing like the anodised silver finish on the aluminium ones. quite happy with the result but its strange to see the colour against the frame i reckon but it'll never be noticed. 

 

 

braced 750 ws side by side with the 11 wp asymmetrical banana arm. i wasn't sure just how much of a difference in length there was going to be due to people saying all sorts but from the centre of the swingarm pivot to the wheel axle (centred in adjustment) centre it's a 60mm difference.

that takes the wp 11's 1485mm wheelbase down to 1425mm which is 15mm shorter than the 750 ws's 1440mm. will likely be very entertaining. because of the difference in length there will be a lesser leverage on the suspension link i reckon so it should be a spot stiffer than it was before so sag will need to be set up.

 

 

[iamhiding]

 

new bearings pushed in.

 

 

fitted to the bike, new chain buffer etc. had to rethread the end of the grub screw holding the swingarm which was awkward. mudflap will need cut down as well.

 

 

been putting the time in and cleaning up bolts etc as its been going back together, time consuming but worth it. fresh chain and sprockets, went for a 530 did and renthal kit for the 750ws. i did the maths beforehand and calculated that it was 108 links needed based on the back axle distance to the front sprocket and the sprocket sizes, heres hoping the measurements/calculations were correct.

[iamhiding]

we have a problem.

 

 

 

theres roughly 2mm sideways play on the back wheel. 

built up using:

Braced 750 ws arm, 750ws calliper bracket, 750ws adjuster blocks & axle.

1100 WP wheel. WP11 left & right spacers. Wp11 sprocket carrier.

All the relevant 11/750 parts numbers between the two styles of swingarm seem identical with exception of the wheel. guessing the wheel is wider on the 750? everything else shares the same parts numbers. going to have to raid the spares box and if not i'll have to just shim it. 

[iamhiding]

when the internet loses connection as you're trying to post... fecksake! i'll update another day. 

[Gammaboy]

On 13/05/2016 at 9:39 PM, iamhiding said:

yeah those rivnuts are absolute bastriding things. pulled it out the frame and got a shot of a rivnut gun.

 

 

bit of an awkward tool in comparison to a regular rivet gun but yeah there you go for anyone who's never seen one.

 

 

fresh nivnut  in the frame. winning at life haha

 

Hint for the future - you can install rivnuts with a bolt, a nut and a washer if you're shafted on access. Wind nut onto bolt, followed by washer. thread into rivnut, hold bolt against spinning, wind nut towards rivnut - will pull the rivnut up nice and tight.

[busa ash]

nice too see a watercooled getting the much needed love 

[iamhiding]

On 23 June 2016 at 3:50 AM, Gammaboy said:

Hint for the future - you can install rivnuts with a bolt, a nut and a washer if you're shafted on access. Wind nut onto bolt, followed by washer. thread into rivnut, hold bolt against spinning, wind nut towards rivnut - will pull the rivnut up nice and tight.

duly noted good sir  had never dealt with one before that, glad i had the right tool for the job though. 

[iamhiding]

On 24 June 2016 at 9:16 AM, busa ash said:

nice too see a watercooled getting the much needed love 

cheers haha its been countless hours and many a penny spent so far anyway. built and running well but still a fair bit to get her just right.