Bandit woes and issues...bit of advise required please

[Zappa]

Hello all, I'm new here and been lurking here occasionally in the past due to the interesting projects and characters that frequent it, so I finally signed up to be regular seeing as I bought a lemon of a bandit, that's emptying my wallet nicely...

Current financial constraints prevent me from buying a nice air cooled GSX, so I opted for a cheap mk2 B12 because the missus missed riding pillion, and after many years of messing with bikes I didn't listen to my buying mantra of 'cheap is never good'...

Sure it needed tyres, pads etc and yes the forks are leaking,(no way it would've passed a legit MOT) and yes the Scott oiler pissed everywhere but on the chain, but it'll clean up right, it sounded alright,  standard bits, lowish mileage 27k, MOT till May 24...I walked right into this joy, put it straight into the van, no test ride etc

Fast forward a couple of three months, work, chores, sleep, and occasional spanners and cleaning in the garage...turned into a budget project.

I could live with the damaged plastic body, tack welded tail of the frame(hidden), missing/shagged/wrong bolts everywhere and generally all rubber gone south, but then low compression on all 4 pots (110), hidden punctured oil cooler (siliconed behind stone guard)etc etc.

Getting to the point of this post...I decided to go through everything possible without spending shedloads as I ain't got it right now and I no longer trusted my newish purchase anymore than the bloke who sold it to me, or my ability to walk away from a wrongun.

Engine out, got away with just one snapped header bolt, I filled all four pots with ATF and Acetone for a week to free up the rings which I suspected were gummed up, they are/were, two held, two let through...dropped the sump, clean the crude and see if anythings going to cheer me up more...no metal bits, looks ok and cleaner.

Generator/Alternator off, nut and washer missing, inside rim of the gear where they're supposed to be nice and shiny...great, clutch cover off, all looks well (no broken bits), torch  and magnet to retrieve the buggers  hiding behind the stator/oil pressure thang, new £10 nut on order, washer slightly shinier but ok, strong loctite when going back on.

Next...and this is the bit I wanted to know...starter/rotor cover off, as I wanted to check the bolt was tight due to stories of them working loose, and peace of mind. Had a look on the bay for holding tool and remover, found GB Products tools, then got confused with the variations available so called them, very helpful and according to them, my factory manual, and calipers, I have a later version 50mm rotor on an earlier (SK2) engine, supposed to be 42mm version apparently?

I assume this set up ok ,but the large main gear behind the starter/rotor seems real loose, as in lots of lateral movement on the crank between case and starter clutch, it engages fine with the idler gear connecting to the starter motor, spins the usual one way (clockwise), but if you grip it and move it backwards and forwards on the crank its a bit flappy.

Is this normal? I remember when I last ran the engine on idle ( I've yet to ride it for the first time) I heard a one off ringing noise from this area for a brief moment, that sounded very similar to ring noise that the above large main gear sounds like when you move it backwards or forwards.

Am pretty sure it wasn't the sound of the AltGen nut and washer going through the motions on the other side of the engine, can't see one of them jumping through the engine case holes from one side to the other without causing a bit of damage or locking up the lump.

Can any of you knowledgable people tell me if this is how these starter gears normally sit on the crank, or is something missing/wrong with the above inherited modification? I have done a very short video of the movement but I don't seem to be able to get it on this post.

Thanks for your time, apologies for the long winded post.

 

[Upshotknothole]

There's usually a bit of play in that starter gear. Congratulations on the blandit. If you can get the engine sorted, I'm sure the rest of the parts you can find cheaply from someone else parting one after they've pulled the engine for another project.

The alternator nut is usually hit with a punch on the edge of the exposed threads to lock it in place. I'd advise doing that again with the new one. You should be able to see marks on the old one and on the shaft.

Aftermarket oil coolers are pretty cheap if you can fabricate up a bracket for it, or find a used stock one.

Now post up some photos, we like to see photos of bikes here.

[Zappa]

Hello, thanks for your reply and advise much appreciated.

I've seen the punch marks on the alternator shaft you mentioned so will do again when the nut arrives. And hopefully when the tools arrive, all goes well with the starter gear, loctite and very tight.

I managed to find a pair of braided cooler hoses s/h that are a direct fit, and had a 19 row Mocal delivered, just the brackets/guard to make up. I figured a good aftermarket one would be the better option considering the 'luck' I had with this one.

Here's a couple of pics, not much to see at the moment, still loads to do but working through it.

It was an S model but I prefer the N, so I bought a load of used bits to convert, it's also now got a late model low mileage busa shock attached, which has jacked the back up, not that I wanted the back end jacked, but i'll see how it goes when I eventually ride it, and make changes to suit.

Found a new old stock Delkavic can and int pipe cheaper, bit long but will shorten it without making it offensive...to my old ears. Front pipes are cleaned modified stock ones, made a new stainless collector collar from pipe which is going to a mate for welding next week...I also ground out the 2-3mm weld beads at the front openings of the headers, which seemed a bit restrictive, no idea if it'll make a difference but not much to loose on these.

 

 

[Upshotknothole]

I'm pretty sure that starter gear is supposed to have a little play in it. @fatblokeonbanditwould probably know better. Bike looks pretty clean without the plastics otherwise.

[Zappa]

Thanks again, the frame is better now, the grease and crap was bad, but I was surprised how rusty most of the welds were under the thin factory paint. Blasting and powder coat was not in the budget (£250) so after two days of wire brushing, sanding and rust converter, primer, topcoat and lacquer (Wurth epoxy wheel paint etc £50) it'll last longer...I was disappointed with the finish as the rust converter residue has shone through the paint, but it's no show bike, I just want a reliable keeper to put a stupid grin on my face.  

[Dezza]

I didn't know Wurth did wheel paint. Any UK links? Their stuff is always really good.

[Zappa]

Any colour you like as long as its silver or white in this type of formula https://eshop.wurth.co.uk/Product-categories/Paint-spray-nitro-alkydal-quality-Special/31083006110706.cyid/3108.cgid/en/GB/GBP/

Though I did skimp on primer and lacquer as Wurth are twice the price, maybe why the finish wasn't great unless your at 50ft 

But the silver is close to the original Suzuki silver 

[Swiss Toni]

Sounds like you’ve got a bit of a job on your hands with that motor. They can take a lot of abuse, so all is not lost! Just go through it methodically, as you seem to be doing, and you’ll triumph in the end. 
And, welcome to OSS! (We need  more pictures)! 

[Zappa]

G'evening all, thanks for the welcome Toni much appreciated. Slowly going through everything without stripping the lump down, the cost of new rings and other parts put me off attempting that, this is a budget job for me at the moment.

Here's some more pics of stuff I did to get to the above stage so far, I'm no super bike mechanic or engineer with a fully equipped garage but willing to give it a go to save on the labour costs and learn a few things along the way.

As said before, I modified the standard headers and collector for the time being, as it seemed mad to throw away and buy new just because the collector collar had done the usual, plus the cost.

I wasn't a fan of the ginormous suzuki can, so it had to go along with the intermediate pipe which also had a rotten end same as the collector, both ends had been previously repaired by blind havago after the pub.

I'd scoured the net for a non standard second hand replacement, but all the good ones were sold, too pricey or kin loud, didn't want an ear bleeder to piss me and the neighbours off (I live in a blue rinse village now, not by choice), so looked at a Dekavic or B Widow, cheap for what you get. I then found the Delkevic 'new old stock' still in a box with all the bits that someone had surplus, that'll do for £100 delivered.

So angle grind off what was left of collector collar, open up/grind/hammer out collector hole a little to take a 63mm OD st/steel pipe from an exhaust parts seller on Eblag £13, fit headers and tail to bike, cut new bit to fit the gap, with overlap for intm. pipe, and enough for inside the collector till it contacts the split plate inside (just like standard). Mark out segments around pipe cut piece to drill and slot, 6 slots, 5mm drill ends of each mark 25mm in from end of pipe to prevent slots splitting the collar when you fit stainless mikalor style pipe clamp on, and vibration does its best to undo your work. Cut slots with grinder and file rough/sharp edges till all smooth again, end result ready to fit on and get a talented welder to do their best.

Make sure said welder first tacks the collar in place with the whole system together on the bike, then remove the system from bike, then weld the stainless collar to collector all round, of course using stainless steel welding rod, just like the accountants at Suzuki did...

I wanted to use the standard style graphite exhaust pipe gasket collar thing than fits between the inner and outer pipe, and as luck would have it, the one that came with the Delkevic intermediate is a good tight fit to the inside of the fabricated collar, result!

As you can see in the pics, the inside end of the standard headers come with a fat bead of weld in each pipe, yes this junction holds the inner and outer pipes of the double skinned headers, and also the mild rusty steel collars that locate them into the head, quite a flow restriction in my mind, so I opted to grind these down to sketchy wafer thin smoothish opening, maybe it'll be better or maybe a rattly not, will let anybody who hasn't fallen asleep yet know when I do.

Cleaning up the standard stainless headers and collectors were done by hand with wire wool dipped in Autosol polish, quicker than expected.

Hope this info helps anyone that fancies a bit of metal work on the weekend, and there are tons of used standard headers out there not being used.

Have a good evening, cheers.