Ignition timing /retard

[Reinhoud]

Just curious.. and hopefully I get some useful information..

 

At how many degrees did you adjust your ignition?

 

I've got an 8 valve engine, Dyna 2000 ignition, the manual says 37 degrees, I also have a twin spark head, "they" say you can retard the ignition a couple of degrees because of that too.

So turbo and twin spark, I retarded the ignition about 7 degrees if I remember correctly, but while experimenting with the timing I found out you lose a fair bit of power with the ignition too much retarded.

On the net I read 28 degrees ignition timing, but isn't that too much?

 

I've got 1245cc big bore on my GS1000, with the ignition on about 30 degrees she went alright, but nothing spectacular, my mates CBR1000 was stronger in the lower revs... But when I set the ignition on 33 degrees the GS stood straight up on the rear weel in 3rd gear off boost.. It makes a lot of difference. It was the same it threw a rod 

 

I know there are a couple of members who have EFI and haven't got the ignition retarded..

 

So, what did you do?

 

 

 

 

[Blower1]

Right ignition timing is depending on many factors; compression ratio, boost, fuel, combustion chamber design, etc.

To get it right needs a lot of dyno tuning time.

About twin spark I know that old Harley engines with hemispherical combustion chamber, after twin spark modification

ignition need to be retarded about 5 degrees.

 

Here is my supercharged EFE´s ignition map. Engine is 1327cc, 12:1 comp and it´s using E85 fuel.

[MeanBean49]

I found mine runs best and makes most power on a stock gsxr ignition curve, no extra retard at all. My old kit without intercooler needed a couple of degrees off at the top as it didnt like it with the stock advance and higher inlet temp. 

[Reinhoud]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:33 PM, Blower1 said:

Right ignition timing is depending on many factors; compression ratio, boost, fuel, combustion chamber design, etc.

To get it right needs a lot of dyno tuning time.

About twin spark I know that old Harley engines with hemispherical combustion chamber, after twin spark modification

ignition need to be retarded about 5 degrees.

 

Here is my supercharged EFE´s ignition map. Engine is 1327cc, 12:1 comp and it´s using E85 fuel.

 

I have the impression that with my bike the timing doesn't need to be retarded because of the twin spark. I added a couple degrees for the twinspark and a couple degrees for turbo, I'm quiet sure it was too much retard in the end.

[Reinhoud]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:27 AM, MeanBean49 said:

I found mine runs best and makes most power on a stock gsxr ignition curve, no extra retard at all. My old kit without intercooler needed a couple of degrees off at the top as it didnt like it with the stock advance and higher inlet temp. 

I found with mine also that it runs best on standard settings, also with the camshaft.

 

The Dyna does has a function that it can retard the ignition when on boost.

When I connected that the bike just died when it hit boost, I think the manual had it wrong wich wire should do this..

[wombat258]

5 minutes ago, Reinhoud said:

I found with mine also that it runs best on standard settings, also with the camshaft.

 

The Dyna does has a function that it can retard the ignition when on boost.

When I connected that the bike just died when it hit boost, I think the manual had it wrong wich wire should do this..

Only on the Dyna 2000 with the programmable option. The unit is easily identified by the extra 3 wires coming out of the box. From memory the purple wire activates the retard function, blue or white wires are are programmable rpm switches (I use them for shift lights). The orange wire in the harness activates the engine kill.

[Gixer1460]

1 hour ago, wombat258 said:

Only on the Dyna 2000 with the programmable option. The unit is easily identified by the extra 3 wires coming out of the box. From memory the purple wire activates the retard function, blue or white wires are are programmable rpm switches (I use them for shift lights). The orange wire in the harness activates the engine kill.

Engine kill when the knob is in NA timing mode - when its turned to retard / boosted settings the Orange enables the retard addition - used it on mine and worked fine ie. it didn't kill the spark!

[wombat258]

Yes. Early Dyna 2000 only allowed kill or retard using the orange wire, and setting the knob as you said. Problem is that using retard locks out being able to use the different timing curves, and you have to use a different method for shift cut.

[Reinhoud]

15 hours ago, wombat258 said:

Only on the Dyna 2000 with the programmable option. The unit is easily identified by the extra 3 wires coming out of the box. From memory the purple wire activates the retard function, blue or white wires are are programmable rpm switches (I use them for shift lights). The orange wire in the harness activates the engine kill.

I used the purple one, that made it kill the ignition, took me a while to figure that out, because I did it according to the manual..

Edited October 22, 2019 by Reinhoud

[Reinhoud]

13 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Engine kill when the knob is in NA timing mode - when its turned to retard / boosted settings the Orange enables the retard addition - used it on mine and worked fine ie. it didn't kill the spark!

Now I'm confused..

NA or boost mode? Mine has a rev limiter and a retard function on it, on the retard function there is a test thingy, but that's all. Can you explain it to me, please, I think I'm missing something..

 

[Gixer1460]

8 hours ago, Reinhoud said:

Now I'm confused..

NA or boost mode? Mine has a rev limiter and a retard function on it, on the retard function there is a test thingy, but that's all. Can you explain it to me, please, I think I'm missing something..

Read section 9 of the Dyna Instructions! The  settings knob when turned left? controls NA advance curves & orange wire is a kill trigger - turned right? and retard degrees are selected and the Orange triggers their application - Clear?

[MeanBean49]

9 hours ago, Reinhoud said:

Now I'm confused..

NA or boost mode? Mine has a rev limiter and a retard function on it, on the retard function there is a test thingy, but that's all. Can you explain it to me, please, I think I'm missing something..

 

Get an ignitech is the soloution, set your own ignition curve and then set up your own retard curve that increases with boost. 

[Gixer1460]

1 hour ago, MeanBean49 said:

Get an ignitech is the soloution, set your own ignition curve and then set up your own retard curve that increases with boost. 

Can be achieved with the 2000i - just not very sophisticated or with great resolution LOL!

[MeanBean49]

1 hour ago, Gixer1460 said:

Can be achieved with the 2000i - just not very sophisticated or with great resolution LOL!

Your description above suggests you have, a, one function or the other, not the ability to use both at the same time. 

[Gixer1460]

8 hours ago, MeanBean49 said:

Your description above suggests you have, a, one function or the other, not the ability to use both at the same time. 

As its been some years since looking at this, I had to download the Curvemaker software, play with it and it doesn't do what I thought it did. You can create your own advance curve but DYNA only allow you a degree of retard per mapped point which isn't ideal and switching from one 'advance' curve to 'retard' curve is via manual switch or pressure switch. As I said not sophisticated , as if you need greater retard than the one degree you seemingly have to compromise the 'advance' curve. Newer systems, either 2D with compensations or 3D mappable are soooooo much easier to use / work better! Apologies if I caused confusion!

[MeanBean49]

12 minutes ago, Gixer1460 said:

As its been some years since looking at this, I had to download the Curvemaker software, play with it and it doesn't do what I thought it did. You can create your own advance curve but DYNA only allow you a degree of retard per mapped point which isn't ideal and switching from one 'advance' curve to 'retard' curve is via manual switch or pressure switch. As I said not sophisticated , as if you need greater retard than the one degree you seemingly have to compromise the 'advance' curve. Newer systems, either 2D with compensations or 3D mappable are soooooo much easier to use / work better! Apologies if I caused confusion!

This is why ignitechs are so good, really easy to put whatever curve you want in, and have it change the curve however you want, not just a set +/- amount over the programmed curve. 

Fully 3d mapping them is really simple